rec.autos.simulators

by **DJSpeed** » Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:41:31

1) Save race! Save Race! Save Race!

I'm no Superman, but I DO have a life, but if I want to run a 50% race
sometimes things in life happen such that it cannot be finished in one
sitting.

2) Allow more than 42 cars to qualify for a race, then set the field based
on the 42 (plus human player) fastest times

Now that entry lists aren't restricted to 43 entries anymore (more or less),
have qualifying attempts to reflect the 43 best times for that race.

3) Daytona Qualifying format!

'Nuff said!

4) Create more fantasy tracks to include with final release

Coca-Cola was nice, but I want something more along the lines of the Ford
Test Track and Bull Run for N2.

That's all my ranting for now :-)

by **Tim** » Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:43:22

Doubt that will happen, since you must have a pit stall for each car,
unless they devise a way for 2 AI drivers to split the practice time
in one pit stall. The method that have incorporated is a pretty good
trade off though.

Tim Wortman
North American Simulation Series
www.nasscar.com

by **Scott Sanfor** » Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:09:39

> Why fantasy? Nascar should move away from 1.5 mile ("ooh it's unique
> cuz the banking is 1deg less in the turns") tracks and race Mid Ohio,
> Elkardt Lake, Laguna Seca, etc. The brake pedal isn't only used to
> pit. So let's include these in a "fantasy" track pack. :>

Why do you think these tracks would even WANT to be in a NASCAR sim since
they host no NASCAR events, and then why do you believe NASCAR would allow
these real life tracks that they do not run to be included?

I'm sure more than half of the people who buy the sim don't even know that
all of the user websites and paintjobs are out there so Papy is spends a lot
of time and effort into getting these cars, and then there is the point of
NASCAR again, do you really believe that NASCAR is going to let someone put
out a game and not have liscensed drivers? BTW, the beer thing is not Papy
that is because of a California state law.

Scott

by **John Simmon** » Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:32:48

1) More road courses - Riverside would be good.

2) The ability to see opponents' animated pitcrews. Also have the
option to set levels of detail

ALL - we see everything - pit wagons, pitboard guys, tire changers,
nascar officiials, the whole ball of wax

Medium - pit wagons and signboard guys only

NONE - just our own pit crew (like it is now)

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **John DiFoo** » Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:33:08

> Fix the AI so that it no longer uses the same model that exists in N1.
> That was what - 7 years ago? To paraphrase LOTR, one lp file to rule
> them all doesn't cut it. One lp file for each driver please. "This
> would kill the cpu." Sure it will, today. Who cares? Look how great
> GPL remains 4 years later and no computer could do it justice when it
> was released. Or allow the user to select whether the "we drive as
> one" model of today is used or the N5 model of tomorrow is used.

I would like to see several things as regards the AI:

1) A toggle in the track.ini file:

Draft = .9 ;0=never draft, for short courses, 1=always draft, for
plate races

I'm tired of the AI wandering all over creation at the plate tracks. To be
fair they are much better now (2002) than they used to be (N4 after all the
patches, there they would often sideswipe you). I am always looking back in
my mirror and saying "get in line you nimrods, and we can pull away from
everyone else!"

2) Pass on the outside in turns/lapped cars get your butts out of the way!

These two often make for a fatal combination. They will yield if they
are banged up and going much slower than the lead lap cars, but more
typically the lead pack will come up on a lapped car and pile up behind it,
sometimes leading to wrecks... Amazing that they STILL do this, 7 years
later...

3) Use those automessages to communicate to the AI. You can use them
in online races sure, but why can't you code the AI to hear them too, or
even say them themselves? How many times have you wrecked someone
going into the pits because you didn't know he was going in? You could
then tell the pinheads behind you to draft with you, among other things...

4) Have them use the exact same physics model that you do.

John DiFool

by **Mycol G. Mai** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:20:00

Speaking of missing the points.... You missed it completley.

maybe papy should make a sim, just for you we'll call it...

VFy Racing 2003 Season

--
Mycol G. Main

ICQ#: 147824877

RAW ACID - pure as God intended it.

Stript, strip tu, n
(A. Sax. Strypt.
D. Stripptenze ya)
Lords with layers skinned to unveil its core in new light;
oft demanded Album of a Lords Classic;
raw, beautiful, ACID Explosion;
party evolution.

> Yay, a Papy employee responds, but ignores perfectly good points and
> moans about legalese and the big boogy man that is Nascar.

> I don't care what Nascar will and will not let you do, the point of
> the post was to suggest what would make for a great N5. If you're
> going to spend time creating fantasy tracks for future releases, make
> a road course or something that resembles one of the circuits that you
> think Nascar will have a fit over. Brake pedal comment still applies.

> And if you want to ignore the Internet community and continue to chase
> down every driver/sponsor for your games, fine. Seems better to me to
> direct limited resources at the game itself and let the Internet
> community pick up the slack.

> So, what about the other points Scott? Ignored? Considered? Or
> should I be aware that Nascar would never approve of these either?

> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:09:39 GMT, "Scott Sanford"

> >> Why fantasy? Nascar should move away from 1.5 mile ("ooh it's unique
> >> cuz the banking is 1deg less in the turns") tracks and race Mid Ohio,
> >> Elkardt Lake, Laguna Seca, etc. The brake pedal isn't only used to
> >> pit. So let's include these in a "fantasy" track pack. :>

> >Why do you think these tracks would even WANT to be in a NASCAR sim since
> >they host no NASCAR events, and then why do you believe NASCAR would
allow
> >these real life tracks that they do not run to be included?

> >> Stop chasing after driver licensing. All users care about are the
> >> tracks. I don't care if the game doesn't ship with a red car #8 with
> >> "Dale" written on the hood. What's that? Focus your time and $$ on
> >> making the GAME better, not licensing drivers and sponsors that the
> >> Internet community is more than able to cover. What driver has
> >> "Rusty" on its hood? Oooh, beer - the great evil of society.

> >> My ranting for the year is done. <g>

> >I'm sure more than half of the people who buy the sim don't even know
that
> >all of the user websites and paintjobs are out there so Papy is spends a
lot
> >of time and effort into getting these cars, and then there is the point
of
> >NASCAR again, do you really believe that NASCAR is going to let someone
put
> >out a game and not have liscensed drivers? BTW, the beer thing is not
Papy
> >that is because of a California state law.

> >Scott

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:21:03

Stock cars are not designed to run on road courses, yet they do run on 2 for
obviously having something "different" throughout the season. I love running
F12002 on the road courses, but personally for me watching Nascar run on a
roadcourse I find very boring.

Don Burnette

> Yay, a Papy employee responds, but ignores perfectly good points and
> moans about legalese and the big boogy man that is Nascar.

> I don't care what Nascar will and will not let you do, the point of
> the post was to suggest what would make for a great N5. If you're
> going to spend time creating fantasy tracks for future releases, make
> a road course or something that resembles one of the circuits that you
> think Nascar will have a fit over. Brake pedal comment still applies.

> And if you want to ignore the Internet community and continue to chase
> down every driver/sponsor for your games, fine. Seems better to me to
> direct limited resources at the game itself and let the Internet
> community pick up the slack.

> So, what about the other points Scott? Ignored? Considered? Or
> should I be aware that Nascar would never approve of these either?

> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:09:39 GMT, "Scott Sanford"

> >> Why fantasy? Nascar should move away from 1.5 mile ("ooh it's unique
> >> cuz the banking is 1deg less in the turns") tracks and race Mid Ohio,
> >> Elkardt Lake, Laguna Seca, etc. The brake pedal isn't only used to
> >> pit. So let's include these in a "fantasy" track pack. :>

> >Why do you think these tracks would even WANT to be in a NASCAR sim since
> >they host no NASCAR events, and then why do you believe NASCAR would
allow
> >these real life tracks that they do not run to be included?

> >> Stop chasing after driver licensing. All users care about are the
> >> tracks. I don't care if the game doesn't ship with a red car #8 with
> >> "Dale" written on the hood. What's that? Focus your time and $$ on
> >> making the GAME better, not licensing drivers and sponsors that the
> >> Internet community is more than able to cover. What driver has
> >> "Rusty" on its hood? Oooh, beer - the great evil of society.

> >> My ranting for the year is done. <g>

> >I'm sure more than half of the people who buy the sim don't even know
that
> >all of the user websites and paintjobs are out there so Papy is spends a
lot
> >of time and effort into getting these cars, and then there is the point
of
> >NASCAR again, do you really believe that NASCAR is going to let someone
put
> >out a game and not have liscensed drivers? BTW, the beer thing is not
Papy
> >that is because of a California state law.

> >Scott

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:01:29

> And if you want to ignore the Internet community and continue to chase
> down every driver/sponsor for your games, fine. Seems better to me to
> direct limited resources at the game itself and let the Internet
> community pick up the slack.

> So, what about the other points Scott? Ignored? Considered? Or
> should I be aware that Nascar would never approve of these either?

Seems that was done in N99 which from my point of view was not as
sucessful as N2 or N3 that bookended it.
dave henrie

by **Uncle Feste** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:43:22

> Yay, a Papy employee responds, but ignores perfectly good points and
> moans about legalese and the big boogy man that is Nascar.

> I don't care what Nascar will and will not let you do, the point of
> the post was to suggest what would make for a great N5.

YFy... calm down & step away from the keyboard. Set? Good. Now think
long & *** this one... Without NASCAR's licensing. do you think
"N5" would even get *released*? Nevermind getting licenses from these
racing facilities to include them in the first place. Reread Scott's
post & maybe you'll catch what he's saying.

--

Fester

"Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no
brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?"
from alt.linux.mandrake NG

by **Rich** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:53:09

wow that would be cool, but lets see 43 cars 8 polygonal pitcrew characters
per car,, ok 4*43=172, so not including the cars or NASCAR officials
you'll have 172 polygonal characters on pitroad at one time.. correct me if
I"m wrong...

What machine could run that ?

by **Jeff Eilan** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:03:03

The *** simracer doesn't support the the company making a racing sim.
The money is in getting the fresh kiddies to want it. That requires a "name"
on the hood, which requires purchasing rights. Let's face it without the
young enticed consumer buying the product, new sims will not be made. Unless
by a not-for-profit company. Too bad Bill isn't a big racin fan I guess.
Jeff

> > Yay, a Papy employee responds, but ignores perfectly good points and
> > moans about legalese and the big boogy man that is Nascar.

> > I don't care what Nascar will and will not let you do, the point of
> > the post was to suggest what would make for a great N5.

> <SNIP indecipherable rambling>

> YFy... calm down & step away from the keyboard. Set? Good. Now think
> long & *** this one... Without NASCAR's licensing. do you think
> "N5" would even get *released*? Nevermind getting licenses from these
> racing facilities to include them in the first place. Reread Scott's
> post & maybe you'll catch what he's saying.

> --

> Fester

> "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no
> brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?"
> from alt.linux.mandrake NG

by **Scott Sanfor** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:46:14

Make that ex-Papy employee, so all comments are my own and in should no way
be considered as a "official" response from Papy or Sierra. Now on to the
comments from my side.<G>

The simple fact of the matter remains that more people would rather have a
unique oval than a road course, not necessarily the people who are in this
newsgroup which if everyone here buys N2k2 they will still make up less than
10% of all the people who buy the game.

What about my point about the people who buy the game and have no idea that
this newsgroup even exists or any of the websites devoted to sim racing, are
sim makers just going to ignore 90% of the customers because the other 10%
can get everything off of the internet?

I chose to comment on these two points because those are some of the most
frequent complaints you see in here and thought I would give some of the
reasoning behind why things are done as they are.

Scott

by **Uncle Feste** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:26:51

> So when a Papy employee replies with "aren't you aware of the great
> evil that is Nascar?" licensing bugaboo while ignoring everything else
> in my post, I'm left wondering why Sandford would bother replying at
> all. Hey Scott, what about the GAME, man?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those tracks as much as you. But I
also realize those tracks likely wouldn't allow their presence in a
NASCAR title, nor would NASCAR allow their name be used in conjunction
with it. He replied to try & get such a point across to us. :-)

Here's hoping it happens one day though! <g>

--

Fester

"Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no
brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?"
from alt.linux.mandrake NG

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:03:59

A) By the time we see such a feature, a capable machine should be
available.

B) If set to "Medium", there would only be 50 (43 pit board guys, and
the remainder of your own pit crew).

C) They should also remove the pit road speed limit for the Coke track.

says...

> wow that would be cool, but lets see 43 cars 8 polygonal pitcrew characters
> per car,, ok 4*43=172, so not including the cars or NASCAR officials
> you'll have 172 polygonal characters on pitroad at one time.. correct me if
> I"m wrong...

> What machine could run that ?

> > 1) More road courses - Riverside would be good.

> > 2) The ability to see opponents' animated pitcrews. Also have the
> > option to set levels of detail

> > ALL - we see everything - pit wagons, pitboard guys, tire changers,
> > nascar officiials, the whole ball of wax

> > Medium - pit wagons and signboard guys only

> > NONE - just our own pit crew (like it is now)

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **ymenar** » Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:33:21

> And if you want to ignore the Internet community and continue to chase
> down every driver/sponsor for your games, fine. Seems better to me to
> direct limited resources at the game itself and let the Internet
> community pick up the slack.

Oh boy, the ever-present "*** community vs the mainstream market"
debate :)

Sometimes I could go like you and post 100-lines about that, sometimes I'm
just cynical and don't care much. I'm cynical at the moment, eh! It's
perfectly normal that you have this attitude. Anybody who is a simracer
will always push the sim to be developed towards him. It make sense, it's
the same thing in flight sims, the same thing in rpg's, space sims, the same
thing even in FPS (there are some less mainstream FPS's lets not forget).
It's the quest towards simracing nirvana or utopia!!!! :-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

rec.autos.simulators

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NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

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NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!

NR2003 Suggestions - Eric Busch please pass on!