"John Simmons"
Sounds Great john, since it allows us to use ANY points system, then may
I propose the DaveH points system...where everyone else gets dq'd and I get
the win, points, and glory??(sorry but that sounds like the ONLY way I'll
win )
dh
1. Have 2 race administrators who review replays and such after the
race if there are problems (i.e. if someone complains that they were
'taken out' or in general if the number of cautions is in double
digits).
2. Enforce some self-spin rules. OSCAR uses 2 self-spins/incidents
caused and you park it. I doubt NASCAR would be as forgiving.
3. I wouldn't advocate bans or anything, but send polite email
warnings to people who are clearly creating problems. I wouldn't want
to lose the friendliness of the events, but on the other hand you have
to have some guidelines to follow or there's no way caution-free
racing can happen. I consider myself a clean racer, but I think that
follows from racing in OSCAR where a careless, unintentional nudge can
generate fines.
Jason
Eldred
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Well, if we have 25 cars, and half of them spin once, that's double-digits.
The real NASCAR doesn't make people park it because they spin twice. At least,
I've never seen it. Usually the only time they pull someone off the track is
for definite rough driving(Harvick), or a car that's too beat up to keep a safe
pace. What's the ratio of yellow flags in OSCAR? I don't think I've ever seen
any of their race reports.
I agree about some guidelines, and I wonder how much that will change the
'feel' of the races. We may go to an 'invite' list, as someone suggested to me
- if you're not on the list, you can't race. The list would probably
originally come from John's RASCAR website, and we would add to it later. I
dunno how that would work out yet - I haven't made a decision on that.
Eldred
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The only way around it would be to hold a "Drivers Meeting" during the
Warmup session where no one should leave the pits until that Chat session is
over.
-Larry
> says...
> > No racing to yellow?
> > I can go along with no passing till backstretch, but racing to the
yellow is
> > too instrumental in some cases.
> > -Larry
> > > I agree Ed. I think a few minor rules are in order. I would like to
see
> > a
> > > "no passing till backstretch" and "no racing to yellow" are both a
good
> > > start. Perhaps a few rules will help the guys that only race Sierra
> > > understand whats expected from them as drivers.
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-Larry
> Brian Oster
> >>"EldredP" writes:
> >>> >No yellows - eh.... what a drag.
> >>> >:-(
> >>> No yellows, because the last Pocono race had a TON of yellow flags. 7
> >>yellow
> >>> flags for 27 laps is pretty damn boring...
> >>Count me out then... 40% race and no yellows is not the thing for me.
> >>Sorry Eldred.
> >Sigh - sounds like a no-win situation. We've had people quit because
there
> >were too many yellows, but people don't want to run with NO yellows. I'm
> >really getting frustrated about the whole thing... :(
> >Eldred
> >--
> >Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> >A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to
cure
> >*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make
a
> >donation. Thank you.
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> Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.
True. Usually, in my experience, there are usually a handful of cars
that self-spin/repeatedly cause incidents and they usually end up
causing a lot more than 2 each. The thing with cautions is, normally,
you end up with maybe 2-4 out of 20 racers causing 14 cautions
themselves, and everyone else ends up wondering what the heck is going
on.
My point was, if some rookie came up and couldn't control their car, I
doubt NASCAR (or the team for that matter) would allow them to
continue their racing career in their series. If Kevin Harvick spun 2
or 3 times by himself at Pocono, I'm sure that a.) he'd be getting
seriously laughed at and b.) NASCAR would, at some point, say "park
it" and then have a meeting in the trailer about his lack of car
control
The last practice race I was involved in, using open setups and (I
believe) 40-50% race lengths had 6 cautions, 4 of them in the first 10
laps, 2 of them specifically caused by me (one misunderstanding of a
rule, another I just completely mis-estimated braking distance...both
stupid mistakes, in other words, that I would normally be
fined/suspended for in a non-practice race). This was at Pocono.
With open setups. The entire field made at least 1 green flag
pitstop, the second last caution came when someone's motor blew with
about 15 laps to go, the last came on the final lap when someone did a
beautiful 360 coming out turn 3 trying to rush to the finish line
(i.e. we didn't actually pace, since it was on the last lap).
How about qualifying races? Have a couple 20% length races beforehand
to weed out reckless drivers and take the top 10 from each race (or
more, until you have a field of 20 or whatever you'd want) and seed
them into a 50% (or whatever length) race. You could set it up like a
typical sprint car event.
For instance. I enter qualifier 1. I finish 4th. Pow, I'm in the
50% race, and I can go drink a beer and wait 20-30 minutes for the
long race. Or, alternately, I enter qualifier 1, have some bad luck,
and finish 14th. I enter the second race and finish 3rd. I'm in.
Or, alternately, I lose control of my car in both races, finish 15th
each time, and miss the long race.
I'm just trying to think of a way to keep the long races fun with full
rules enabled and have entry based on merit instead of "hey, I'm
so-and-so from RAS" or "I'm Eldred's sugar daddy". =) People who
aren't quite up to making the feature race would be getting valuable
practice/seat time in the heat races, and people who are able to drive
a 50% race cleanly would, in all likelihood, be able to make it
through the qualifiers easily (I can't imagine having many more than
20 people turning up for the race anyway). This way everyone could
participate to some extent, and the people who were serious about
running long races with full rules could do that as well.
Just an idea.
Jason
says...
> The only way around it would be to hold a "Drivers Meeting" during the
> Warmup session where no one should leave the pits until that Chat session is
> over.
> -Larry
> > Well, given the nature of our open races (anyone can join if they simply
> > know the password which is readily avaiable), these two things would not
> > work. The new people won't know that they can't pass till the
> > backtstretch (a rule I would not personally endorse or follow myself),
> > and they won't know they can't race back to the line under cautions
> > (another rule that I don't agree with, but would obey).
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Eldred
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webpage.
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>For instance. I enter qualifier 1. I finish 4th. Pow, I'm in the
>50% race, and I can go drink a beer and wait 20-30 minutes for the
>long race. Or, alternately, I enter qualifier 1, have some bad luck,
>and finish 14th. I enter the second race and finish 3rd. I'm in.
>Or, alternately, I lose control of my car in both races, finish 15th
>each time, and miss the long race.
>I'm just trying to think of a way to keep the long races fun with full
>rules enabled and have entry based on merit instead of "hey, I'm
>so-and-so from RAS" or "I'm Eldred's sugar daddy". =) People who
>aren't quite up to making the feature race would be getting valuable
>practice/seat time in the heat races, and people who are able to drive
>a 50% race cleanly would, in all likelihood, be able to make it
>through the qualifiers easily (I can't imagine having many more than
>20 people turning up for the race anyway). This way everyone could
>participate to some extent, and the people who were serious about
>running long races with full rules could do that as well.
Eldred
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walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my
webpage.
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> >Actully, the only way to REALLY fix the problem is to turn this thing
> >into an administered league with a spcific ruleset that everyone must
> >adhere to, along with an access-restricted server (through an invite
> >file). Like I stated earlier (and possibly in another thread), Eldred
> >isn't up for that (and I really can't blame him).
> Do we really need *another* league? Aren't there enough out there for
people
> who want the organized competition? There are probably 10 or more
different
> leagues that run every day... Just guessing, but there have to be a
COUPLE
> every day.
> Eldred
-John
/Carl
> Simmons
> > >Actully, the only way to REALLY fix the problem is to turn this thing
> > >into an administered league with a spcific ruleset that everyone must
> > >adhere to, along with an access-restricted server (through an invite
> > >file). Like I stated earlier (and possibly in another thread), Eldred
> > >isn't up for that (and I really can't blame him).
> > Do we really need *another* league? Aren't there enough out there for
> people
> > who want the organized competition? There are probably 10 or more
> different
> > leagues that run every day... Just guessing, but there have to be a
> COUPLE
> > every day.
> > Eldred
> The way to do it, IMO, is via an invite list. And you have the final
say
> on who is on it; if someone doesn't like that, race elsewhere, take it or
> leave it. You decide if someone gets booted off it, etc. And make it
> known, them's the rules, they're not up for discussion.
> Keeps it simple, easy, etc.
> It really shouldn't be as involved as this thread.
> -John
-John
> /Carl
> > Simmons
> > > >Actully, the only way to REALLY fix the problem is to turn this thing
> > > >into an administered league with a spcific ruleset that everyone must
> > > >adhere to, along with an access-restricted server (through an invite
> > > >file). Like I stated earlier (and possibly in another thread),
Eldred
> > > >isn't up for that (and I really can't blame him).
> > > Do we really need *another* league? Aren't there enough out there for
> > people
> > > who want the organized competition? There are probably 10 or more
> > different
> > > leagues that run every day... Just guessing, but there have to be a
> > COUPLE
> > > every day.
> > > Eldred
> > The way to do it, IMO, is via an invite list. And you have the final
> say
> > on who is on it; if someone doesn't like that, race elsewhere, take it
or
> > leave it. You decide if someone gets booted off it, etc. And make it
> > known, them's the rules, they're not up for discussion.
> > Keeps it simple, easy, etc.
> > It really shouldn't be as involved as this thread.
> > -John
Invite list *could* be a solution - but I for one would rather see the
current format being retained - i.e one 'commonly known' password.
--
ed_
<big snipp!>
apart from the fact that your suggestion counterfeits the original idea of
an open race for everyone on RAS, you're putting quite a bit of pressure on
Eldred. As a league admin you know that those not on the invite list might
not always be easy about it, and since there's no way from keeping them off
RAS as well, Eldred would be confronted with that...
Achim
...
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