rec.autos.simulators

And its called a beta patch.. can I asume they released it because
they promised us a mid-nov release date, and we can still expect an
even better patch? Hell if they would have called this the final patch
I would just be as happy, all of the gfx problems are gone, the
backfire sound is supah, and the ff is just ***y fantastic with
30.000 (ok, but less but it seems that much) variables to manually
tweak it..

Ubi, take note how it should be done, then walk away in shame!

Andre

I have arrived at these (only showing the important ones):
FFB_Steer_Force_Exponent=(0.700000)     // Recommended: 0.5 to 2.0, 0.0
disables steering force.
FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000)     // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if
controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max=(0.700000)     // -1.0 to 1.20 Recommended: 0.85
to 1.10  Maximum force output of steering force.
FFB_Steer_Force_Grip_Weight=(0.300000)     // Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0  How
much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB_Steer_Damper_Coefficient=(0.400000)     // -1.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.0
to 0.5, 0.0 disables steering damper.
FFB_Steer_Damper_Saturation=(1.000000)     // 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: leave
it at 1.0 and change only the coefficient.

Must say I don't like very strong FF, if you do up the
FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max

The idea of the beta patch is that you can still provide feedback here:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Bart

The effects in the profiles I posted only make use of
the forces actually calculated by the physics model of
F12K (except for a bit of canned rumble strip effect).
I think these profiles are about as realistic as it
will get (though I'd like to be proven wrong).  The
other effects available are more of a canned nature
that I think detracts from the important steering
forces.

One thing about these profiles is that you won't feel
very strong cornering forces unless you are driving
close to the limit.  If you are just cruising around,
there won't be as much feel.  While you are learning,
you might want to lower the FFB force exponent to 0.6
or 0.5 (lower is stronger).  This will increase the
response to lower cornering forces.  As you get better,
0.7 seems to give a better feel for where the limit
actually is.

--
Pat Dotson

Hi Bart, thanks for the settings. They work nice, allthough I still
think they can be improved (I hope :)
Some questions:

I set this one higher indeed, I have the momo on 100% strength in
windows and then this setting is a tad low

Why not -7000 here?

I don't get the difference between this settings and the
steer-force-exp setting, both are for the amount of force?
Anyway I set this one higher too.

Ok, this one seems very important to me. I think the most important
part of ff is to be able to feel if the car is coming loose. That's
what this setting is for I assume? You set it below the recommended
value - shouldn't this one be set to the maximum?

And what settings do you use in windows?
Thanks for your input :)

Andre

I have a Momo and I guess I need slightly different settings than your
LWFF settings?

Lower is stronger? Ah, I thought otherwise :-/
Time for some more experimenting then!

Andre

I followed Pat here :) Except I found the Momo needs the minus sign here
(should cure your complaint in another message about the wheel is pulling to
the left and right on straights).

This is the one I used to get lighter FF.

Again I followed Pat here. If you set it higher, like the 0.9 default, grip
changes have too great an effect on the forces felt.

At the moment, I have overall FF level=90% Spring effect level=40% and
Damper effect level=40%

You're welcome :)

Bart

The exponent number increases or decreases response
to smaller cornering forces.  Lower numbers increase
the feedback generated by small forces.

In my experience, numbers lower than 0.5 tend to
create wheel oscillations.  Higher steering
sensitivity settings will "focus" the forces
at the center of steering travel, and do the
same thing.

Output Max raises or lowers the wheels response
to maximum in-game forces.

FF in F1 2001 is based only on what the front wheels
are doing.  Raising grip weight gives you an
exaggerated response to tires losing grip.  I find
that with high grip weights, as you pass maximum
tire grip, the opposing force on the wheel drops
off so quickly that it interferes with controlling
the car.

A setting of 0.3 may be a little subtle while you
are getting a feel for things.  You might try bumping
it up a bit, though I personally wouldn't go over 0.5.
--
Pat Dotson

If you'll notice, the settings are the same for
all three wheels, except for the FFB steering
force output max.  That number is tailored to
the specific wheels (at least the individual
wheel that I have).

Like I said in the other post to this thread,
try lowering the FFB steering force exponent
to 0.6 or 0.5.  That will give you more
feedback at lower speeds.  Setting it too
low will cause wheel oscillations.
--
Pat Dotson

Right, thanks for the info. But yesterday I learned I made a mistake
while experimenting with the parameters, I went into the calib menu
after making some tweaks and apparently that resets the values..

I'm in the middle of reinstalling windows now, for some reason F1 2001
refused to start yesterday, it kept crashing after I started it.
Hope everything works again tonight so I can finally experiment with
the ff with this new knowledge.. Thanks :)

Andre

FFB Steer Force Input Max "compresses" or "expands" the
strength of the in-game forces in relation to the maximum
force the wheel can generate.  This is at least the way I
think of it.

I think that this setting more than any other will
determine how well the forces generated by the FF
wheel meshes with in-game events.

The way I experimentally set this value for each wheel
was to:

1) set force exponent, and FFB steer force output
max to 1.  This should translate in-game forces directly
into FF forces without any further enhancement.

2) set grip weight to zero, so that effect wasn't
interfering with what I think is the raw output
of in-game forces.

3) Adjust FFB steer force input max up or down until
the wheel is generating its maximum force as the car
reaches it's maximum lateral force at the front wheels
that the car is capable of producing.  Lowering this
value will reduce the force the wheel generates at
max lateral force.  Raising this value will cause the
wheel to generate its max force before the car hits
its max lateral force (you can't feel the limit).

4) Raise the grip weight enough so that steering
force drops once the tire passes its peak slip angle.
Raising grip weight up to around 1.0 means that
steering forces drop off completely as you pass
peak slip angle.  I don't need it to drop to zero,
I only need enough of a drop that I know I've passed
peak slip angle.

I honestly can't think of a better way to implement
FF in a driving simulation.  The grip weight setting
gives you an enhanced way to feel that you are over-
driving the car.  In real life, the steering force/
lateral force wouldn't drop off like that.

The only thing I'd like to try differently is, instead
of calculating the lateral force at the front wheels,
calculate the lateral force at the exact center of
the drivers rectum.  This should give more of a "seat
of the pants" feel! :)  I'm not sure this would be
better, but I think this combined with the grip weight
parameter might give a better feel for what's happening
when the rear of the car gets loose.
--
Pat Dotson