rec.autos.simulators

Stephen

Hehe Fran?ois,

My SEAT Terra with a stunning 29 Bhp engine still uses the
same physics as a 2000 Ferrari F1 car....Same as with 1967 F1
and 2000 F1 cars....both still comply to the same laws of physics,
but handle different.

You're confusing physics with the parameters used for the F1
car in F1 2000.

Physics are....well, just physics...if I drop a brick or a feather
from 10 feet, the physics are the same, the result isn't...

Remco

So the physics engine is marvelous, but the implementation of parameters
within it suggests that the creators might have leaned towards
playability. Tweak the parameters towards more realistic values, and the
sim will become very hard to master.

-Gregor

New York isn't a country. ; )

Andrew

"Why does the framerate shoot up so much in GPL when using the chase
view?  Physics are the same in either view.

Simple Answer: It's because of the graphics engine. GPL doesn't have a
very
good one compared to some others IMO."

In my subsequent replies I was trying to get the point across that the
performance hit due to the mirrors is not really a GPL specific
problem, but rather a fundamental issue for 3D engine games.

--
Eric

Andre

No, but it has some that is stunning, with great roads to drive through it
on. A road just about 15 minutes from me made Car and Driver's top 10
driving roads a few years ago.

Take that all you left coasters with your Highway 1. Hah!

So long as the agreement is legal. It is legal to sell your software you
know, just like a used book, no matter what the EULA says. At least up until
the DMCA.

You are dead wrong about your belief about the legality of warz and the
reason for it's illegality. Dead wrong. Here, I'm afraid, you simply don't
know what you are talking about. By your view you could by a legally
released game from the store, change a file, and put it on the web?

Go ahead, give it a try. Buy N4 when it comes out. Make a car set. Put all
of N4 with your carset on a web site. Make sure you have metatags to make
the web site easy to find. See how long it takes for you to recieve a cease
and desist letter. Refuse to cease and desist. See what happens to you.

You don't get it. IP is property. Distributing it without permission is
ALWAYS theft. It isn't yours. Period.

Go look it up.

Because such terms are legal.

Copyright law is not shakey, and this particular area is WELL tested.

Look it up.

It's horrid. It's anti consumer, but it may just be legal. Right now it
hasn't hit the federal courts at all. The NY Supreme court is the higest
it's gone, and they upheld it. We'll just have to wait to see what the feds
do with it.

There is a difference between couldn't do, and DIDN'T do. Take a look at an
auto thrill show.

There isn't anything you can do in GPL that you can't do with a Camaro. Take
a look at the Rockford Files.

But what does the software model DO with all those parameters? That's my
problem with SCGT. It dosn't matter what values you put in the .veh file.
The MODEL dosn't use them correctly. The .veh file isn't the code at all,
it's just database of variables.

I don't have it, so I can't comment. I'm honestly looking for input here. Is
SCGT2 better in this regard than SCGT was?

I never had to drive an orc at 200 mph in first person view :)

% And as I must repeat over and over, difficulty is not realism!

Yeh, you got that right, "repeat over and over"...  However when what
your are simulating is a difficult thing then difficulty is realism.
Driving a 1967 F1 car was difficult, so if it is simulated and it's not
difficult then it's not realism.

This is what Dave Kaemmer had to say about this:

DK: I mean. NASCAR 4 is as realistic as anything you are going to find,
and we can keep it on the road, and race with each other. Doorhandle to
doorhandle. But you have to learn a few things and build a few good
habits which are part and parcel of racing. And that's the fun of the
product. You learn good car control habits. Umm...[thinking] You know,
I think there is a general tendency to equate realistic physics with
difficulty. And I think that's kind of a cheap and easy way to look at
it. I don't think that's true at all. Everybody's experienced trying to
land Flight Simulator. And obviously that's difficult. So, you know.
Part of it is frame-rate. Everybody that plays GPL once they get it
running at a good frame-rate, they find: "oh wow! I'm faster. It's
easier. It's better" There are a lot of factors. [in deep thought] Some
of them are: what kind of machine are you running it on, what kind of
peripherals are you using, how much time have you put it in. You know?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

With tweaking this values closer to what a real F1 car should be like
based on some physics estimates, the sim becomes very close to GP2 to
drive. It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

-Gregor

% Exactly. The physics engine in F1 2000 is admirable. If you have some
% physics and race car knowledge, open up the .veh files and this will
% give clues as to what and how it is all modelled. The only problem is,
% this will also show that some parameters are off. Luckily, one is free
% to tweak those parameters.

It tells us "what" is modelled but not how accurately.  One wonders if
the reason "tweaking" is necessary is because the modelling wasn't
accurate enough to begin with....

% So the physics engine is marvelous, but the implementation of parameters
% within it suggests that the creators might have leaned towards
% playability. Tweak the parameters towards more realistic values, and the
% sim will become very hard to master.

Still doesn't tell us how accurate or even how well all of the
compenents work in conjunction with each other....

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Or mirrors (which I think is the bigger frame rate robber).  Also
remember that GPL was programmed to keep the max frame rate in "time"
with the physics engine.  This is one of the reasons it is capped at 36
frames per second.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=