rec.autos.simulators

I am now racing at expert level with all aids off except auto gears.
My first two circuits that i am attempting are Spa and Nurburgring.

I set myself to start 10th in single race mode and have to do lots of
restarts due to first corner accidents, so many so that i end up doing a
race save sometimes after the first corner if i do manage to get through
with all wings and wheels on! just so i can complete the race.

The AI seem to be ok and dont hit each other when there is no human
involved in the race, ie you start a race, pull off and watch them enter
the corner. But if you (the human) are involved they seem hell bent on
hitting you, as if they dont even know you are there.

Later, if you make it through the first corner, any overtaking move you
make must be very very clean, any gap left or slowness by you and they
will come back at you, this i dont mind and think its only normal, but
they seem to crash into you for no good reason other than to take the
line you are on.

I have now managed to win at both circuits without a saved game restart
but it took an awful long time in restarts to get away clean and i lost
a lot of races through AI tactics that would have got a real F1 driver
banned for the season.

Comments on the above anyone...

Another point, can you only have 1 saved race in each mode, ie single
race, grand prix etc?

If you hit race save in a race and you already have a race saved it
seems only to overwrite the original, even when you are at a different
circuit.

Mike.

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   08:06  on  01/04/98
   From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK.
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Mike,

Spa is well known for first corner incidents.  I think the AI in F1RS is
great.  It makes driving a challenge because the other cars drive like
other people racing hard.  What's the point in a sim that lets you blast
past the opposition without a fight?

If you are careful in the first corner, and don't try to make up too many
places, then things are normally okay.  In a number of cases where I
thought I've had cars drive into me, if I check out the replay, it's
normally my behaviour that caused the incident.

Steve.

In expert mode, with all driving aids off (in all sims), there should
be no way that anyone can finish in 1st place in a race.  The only
people that should manage this, are the actual drivers of F1, or
IndyCar etc.
How can someone come in and practice for a few week or months, and
then win a race.  In reality you can give me a year of practice on any
real circuit with the big boys, and there is no way I will finish in
the top ten.  
Many people think GP2 is a great sim, but how can it be considered a
real sim, when average Joes can come in first place.

My point is, I think people are taking this "simulation" thing a bit
too far.
As far as the degree of realism, the only people I will listen to are
the real F1/Cart drivers.  If Jacques Vellinuve and John Alesi say
it's a great simulation and very accurate, then I have to believe them
as opposed to someone who has been racing F1 sims all their lives.  I
figure the real drivers have more first hand knowledge.

Just my opinion,
Comments are welcome.

Marc.
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Marc,

Probably.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't quite agree, for two
reasons:

1.  Although the sims are 'simulations', if they were as realistic as the
'real thing' then as you say few people would even get off the starting
line (most people stall an F1 car when they first try).  These things are
published as entertainment, and having no success is no fun.

I think you'd be suprised how much time the computer players put in when
compared to real F1 drivers.  Unlike those using sims, F1 drivers can't
drive the car all hours that God sends.  I think you'll find that the avid
sim players weekend equates to quite a few F1 testing sessions.

If all the aids are switched off, and these people are consistently coming
in first place on full distance races, then they are not 'average Joes' -
there is a great deal of skill involved in that kind of performance.

Cheers,

Steve.

Oops, the second reason is that you are assuming that the only people that
are capable of driving an F1 car are actually doing so.  In the whole
world there are only 30 or so F1 driving jobs, but I'm sure there are many
more people capable of doing it.

The same applies to flight sims and such.

I'm not knocking any sim  (personally I love F1RS), and take it for
what it is - a great F1 simulation that is pretty accurate (according
to some F1 pros), while not being too accurate in that I could never
be competative.

Marc.
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If it was a real sim, 99% of people would give up on it after a day.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to drive an F1 car?
Now if they built a perfect karting simulation, that would be fun...
But a true F1 sim would leave most of us annoyed and frustrated.
Ubisoft have to tread that thin line that runs between true realism,
and home entertainment.

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

It is so. You can't name your race saves, You can name your championship
after each race though. So, only one active race can be in progress at
any instant. Even more dumb : if you want to abandon race, you'll *have*
to watch the race in acclerated time.

But I LOVE this sim!

Stanley

Nathan Wong heeft geschreven in bericht

To the people saying there are capable F-1 drivers that do not have an F-1
racing job:

F-1 drivers are coming from Karts first, some not,  and have come a LONG way
to be an F-1 driver. Do you really belief that you can by-pass that
experience by driving a sim? That you really are up there when you win an
F1-RS championship?

For starts, do you sit there all soaked and wet when after 53 laps of Monza,
you cross the finish-line? I don't think so?

Do you feel the pressure of the brake-pedal when you hit it? Even Force
Feedback can't do this.

Do you feel G-Forces when taking a corner? Nope.

When you hit the barriers, are you dizzy? Blacked out?

What you get in ANY simulation, is a reality with MULTIPLE features turned
of. For starters, your helmet doesn't get all smeared with oil and dirt.
There's no wind influence. We do have rain these days, but it still isn't
the huge amount of spray I expected. It's very nice, but I still think I see
TOO much of the surroundings. I remember Mika Hakkinen say:"In heavy rain,
you drive by watching the light in front of you, you can't even see the
sides of the track." upon which the interviewer asked:"And the leader?"
Mika:"I guess he's guessing."

Many people just don't understand that a sim might approach the behaviour of
a car, but never will BE the car. When I see myself edging a pole on a
track, I really don't see myself getting this done in real life.

"On 5 August 1944 in the vicinity of St. Sever Calvados, France, witnessed a
German Mark V Panther tank knock out three M4 and three M5 tanks during and
after being hit by at least fif*** rounds of 75mm APC from a distance of
approximately 700 yards. All of these shells had ricochetted, with the
exception of a six***th round which finally put the Mark V Panther out of
action." Sgt. Thomas P. Welborn, Germany's Panther tank, the quest for
combat superiority by Thomas L. Jentz
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I'll check it, but I think you can name your own save games. I think that
the real file on the HD is not renamed, but that this file is all saved
games together, a-la Quake and Hexen which also have one file for all saved
games.

At least, I typed a name for my saved game in Australia.

"On 5 August 1944 in the vicinity of St. Sever Calvados, France, witnessed a
German Mark V Panther tank knock out three M4 and three M5 tanks during and
after being hit by at least fif*** rounds of 75mm APC from a distance of
approximately 700 yards. All of these shells had ricochetted, with the
exception of a six***th round which finally put the Mark V Panther out of
action." Sgt. Thomas P. Welborn, Germany's Panther tank, the quest for
combat superiority by Thomas L. Jentz
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Could I be a top RL driver? Heck no. I get scared watching the F1 drivers
hurtling towards the first bend. No way I could ever be in the middle of
that pack of nuts <g> Even if I were brave enough, I may never be able to
take the G forces required - and that's if I were committed enough to put
in the many, many hours of fitness training.

But take away that fear of crashing, the hard work to get fit enough (and
also take away the fear of losing a drive through writing off too many
cars <g>) and I can be pretty damn quick.

To be honest, when it comes to *sims*, I take anything from a RL driver
with a hefty pinch of salt. Yes they (obviously <g>) have the RL
experience, but when translating RL to a computer simulation, compromises
have to be made. Currently there is no way to simulate the 'seat of the
pants' feedback that the RL drivers get. So how does a RL driver compare
a 2D screen image (with some incomplete audio input) and compare that to
his RL experience? If a RL driver is endorsing a sim, it's because he is
getting paid for it ;-)

Personally, I put far more weight on the comments of those whose opinions
I have come to trust and respect based on their actual experiences with
sims. They hold far more weight than any comment that has been bought.

Cheers,
Richard

I think UBISoft gave us a nice balance of realism and gameplay.  They
made some nice options that cater to many different driving skills.
In my books, I consider this game of the year.

Marc.
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Likewise, although it depends upon the circumstances. I've heard many
of the NASCAR drivers say that they quite often play NASCAR2 or use
NROS, although I haven't heard specific comments regarding how it
compares to real-life. That sort of unsolicited comment I would pay
more attention to than the one on the back of the box which says
"Driver _____ says our sim is the dog's bollocks". If Pepsi paid me
five dollars to say their drink was better than a Crozes Hermitage I'd
take the money and run.

Regardless of the advertising, in the end you are judged against your
competitors and by your customers, and for that sort of judgement the
best people are those who have spent a lot of time with the competing
products. If they happen to have RL experience as well then that's
some icing to go on the cake, but not too many sim-racers have aspired
to race anything like what is being simulated.

Cheers!
John