Excellent review...thanks for the effort.
PAPA DOC
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...<G>
Excellent review...thanks for the effort.
PAPA DOC
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...<G>
Jeff,
I was thinking that in '67 the drivers almost lay on their backs, nearly
looking over their toes to drive. In a '96 F1 car the driver sits more upright
and has a slightly different perspective.
I love the letterbox format of GPL. Looks like the view through the shield in
my Shoei!
Don
Excellent review, just adding my 2 Canadian...
Well, since Mr. Kaemmer is a very hard-headed man, and wants everything
perfect, Papyrus's way of making wet conditions is almost impossible. This
include rain/fog/effects on tires on different surfaces/weather on different
parts on tracks/hard and light rain/wather rivers/etc... Compared to F1RS,
it's 10x more complicated. I still think that the rain weather of F1RS is
very simple.
FIA graphics ? This is the new standard, or what ;-) GPL legends is in full
16-bit colors, and I would think that the way they paint is "unique", and
looks really neat. A mixture of cartoonish and reality at the same time. I
won't talk about Bugs Bunny F1RS colors ;-)
I think the driving position is way to low in F1RS. Must be this impression
I have also.
Oh and about the framerate, note that GPL uses 160+ cycles, and I doubt F1RS
has more.
I was impressed also. I always tought there is no need to see the sky, so
with a letterbox they can put a bigger angle of view. I can't imagine the
car at the bottom of the screen with 40% of the screen who is the sky. Makes
better framerate also ;-)
Montral ? Huh ???
The only addition thought is that the mass-*** people don't like GPL,
because it's too difficult. Hope there is a arcade version for arcade
people. Not that I want it, but it would boost up the sales, and make more
money in Papyrus pockets ;-) Papyrus would but can't do a racing simulator
who is like reality. Sure we would like it. But where's the benifits for
them ?
Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:00:18 GMT,
I think it is essential in a modern sim, but then GPL simulates an era
where data logging was not even a dream. It definitely shouldn't be
there IMO.
It's a subjective thing. I prefer GPL to F1RS and preferred F1RS over
GP2 or CPR.
The sound is a placeholder.
Remember that a lot of people here _have_ actually driven real cars
(still do in some cases, and to surprisingly high levels). Many people
really are qualified to have that opinion, and in any case the vast
majority have driven a road car and know how a car actually responds
to given inputs. The cars in F1RS and GPL should respond in the same
manner given appropriate consideration for the effects of the wings
etc.
Other than the above (hey, it's just my opinion!), nice balanced
review.
Cheers!
John
Hi Don-
I had the good fortune to sit in a Williams-Renault FW16 and,
uh, cough, you're just not right. :) It's like you're completely laid
out flat, and your upper body is curled up a bit. This perspective
thing, between F1RS and GPL, is really daft to say the least.
It was kind of like laying on your back inside a kayak. Just
plain painful!
Jeff
Why do I get the feeling that if someone like Greg Moore was asked if
weather should be in this sim, he would say, "sure, put rain in the game and
make it slippery".
Dave
Hi Jeff,
Well... the Williams was probably a better experience than I had getting in and
out of one of Nick Wirth's Simteks. Jeez, that car is small, but I am 6 ft. and
F1 drivers are much smaller. I had my knees pulled up to the top of the tub
just to hit the pedals, I couldn't even work them! But in that car at least,
the driver sat in a relativly upright position. I remember commenting at the
time that the seating position felt a lot like my kart.
As a kid, I got to sit in an old Cooper-Climax. I was astonished to find that
there was really no seat. The driver sat on a formed sheet of aluminium that,
they explained to me, was the bottom of the car! There were odd bits of chassis
and radiator tubing in the***pit, seemingly all placed where the driver would
bang into it while cornering. Racing drivers were different in those days...
Back to The Glen!
Don
I remember that Alain Prost's book mentioned it's better to sit right
on the floor, for better feel. He said it's an unwritten trick. That
might explain something too....
I couldn't even slide into the Williams without straightening out my
legs; the nose was so narrow bending the knees wouldn't let you slide
forward...the guy from Williams said to 'point your feet forward, and
your legs too....'
Wild stuff. I think I better rent Grand Prix this weekend before the
GP in Argentina :-)
Jeff
I found the sound track to Grand Prix a few weeks back. I've been playing it in
the background while I drive GPL....this is getting serious...does anyone know
where I can get a pair of string back driving gloves? I wonder if TSW would
make a controller with a polished wood rimmed steering wheel? This is better
than Mr. Peabody's Way Back Machine!
....seriously going off the deep end here...Don
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:00:18 GMT,
>(soapbox time....you've been warned!)
> Let me make one point- before casting stones about 'driving
>models' and such, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about 'realistic models' unless
>you've driven race cars- unless Stirling Moss and Jacques Villeneuve
>are lurking, most comments are conjecture, nothing more. A lot of
>people seem to think that the harder it is, the more accurate it is.
<snip>
Jeff,
I would really like to see how many people commenting on the GPL
driving model were even old enough to know what those cars looked like
let alone ever driven one. I have to rely on my father's impression
and feedback, since I was only 4 years old in 1967. :)
I would never presume to comment on any driving model since I've never
stepped into a real F1, CART Champ, or NASCAR racing machine (unless
it was standing still and in a museum or expo), but nevertheless I am
eager to read the comments from "real racers." ***y-bop sim bashers
should stick to playing Mario on their Nintendo's and clear up some of
the space in this newsgroup.
<my soapbox now turned off>
Kyle
My previous post was definitely not intended to impune anyone's
comment in this thread. Of the follow-up posts I've read from your
initial one, you've got the cream of the crop replying, names of sim
racers that I highly respect and always read when I see that they've
taken the time to post a message or reply.
Thanks to those serious racers who still hang around here in r.a.s.!
Your thoughts and impressions are always welcome and appreciated.
Kyle :)
>>(soapbox time....you've been warned!)
>> Let me make one point- before casting stones about 'driving
>>models' and such, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about 'realistic models' unless
>>you've driven race cars- unless Stirling Moss and Jacques Villeneuve
>>are lurking, most comments are conjecture, nothing more. A lot of
>>people seem to think that the harder it is, the more accurate it is.
><snip>
>>(soapbox off....)
><snip>
>>Jeff
>Jeff,
>I would really like to see how many people commenting on the GPL
>driving model were even old enough to know what those cars looked like
>let alone ever driven one. I have to rely on my father's impression
>and feedback, since I was only 4 years old in 1967. :)
>I would never presume to comment on any driving model since I've never
>stepped into a real F1, CART Champ, or NASCAR racing machine (unless
>it was standing still and in a museum or expo), but nevertheless I am
>eager to read the comments from "real racers." ***y-bop sim bashers
>should stick to playing Mario on their Nintendo's and clear up some of
>the space in this newsgroup.
><my soapbox now turned off>
>Kyle
> Why do I get the feeling that if someone like Greg Moore was asked if
> weather should be in this sim, he would say, "sure, put rain in the game and
> make it slippery".
> Dave
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/3794
Indycar driver, Craftsman truck driver, Virtual airline pilot, Flight
Simulator scenery designer, Webmaster, Auto technician, father &
husband....Who has time?
> Remember that a lot of people here _have_ actually driven real cars
> (still do in some cases, and to surprisingly high levels). Many people
> really are qualified to have that opinion, and in any case the vast
> majority have driven a road car and know how a car actually responds
> to given inputs. The cars in F1RS and GPL should respond in the same
> manner given appropriate consideration for the effects of the wings
> etc.
Here's some good road car "experience" for average folks:
Road car not turning tight enough? Dial in more lock!
Sliding to the outside of a turn? Dial in more lock and stab the
brakes!
Not slowing fast enough? More brakes!
Lane change? Ease the wheel over a hair's breath; you've got 10-15
seconds to complete the maneuver.
Oversteering? (Never mind how F*(*ing hard it is to get a stock road
car to oversteer :-) ) Relax, neutral throttle, no brakes, look where
you want to go, and let the front wheels rotate automagically to
correct the slide.
People drive road cars, thinking they're making good time when they
double the posted on-ramp speed, and suddenly a racing sim that isn't
butt-easy the first time out is "'obviously wrong' if such a budding
Juan-Manual-Fangio as myself can't drive it at speed in the first 10
minutes." :-)
Tossing a road car safely about on public roads teaches you relatively
little about racing dynamics. (And if you try to learn racing on the
public roads, you deserve to be condemned to drive slushbox Yugos and
Trabants exclusively until the end of your days!!!)
---Jim
I would imagine a number of enthusiasts on this group (myself included!)
here in the UK old enough to have driven in the late 70s early 80s would
have driven competitively on public roads - it was called road rallying.
Ask Gwyndaf Evans (rally driver) if he learnt little from those days!