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> > as any racing driver knows, the most important sense when driving a car
> > near/on the limit is feel. you feel the rear wheels begin to lose grip
long
> > before anybody could see it visually. you correct movements
imperceptible to
> > the human eye. most racing is reacting to things which cannot be taught
by a
> > computer simulation.
> You are wrong if not alone in not understanding how a computer driving
> simulation can produce a 'real' driving experience. As one with a long
time
> fascination with the nature of competitive driving and with on track and
sim
> racing experience I have come to understand why to two are fundamentally
the
> same.
> It is, as you said, about feel...feel of the car's reactions to your
inputs..
> That feel comes from the driver's brain processing the inputs available to
it.
> While computer sims do lack one important input, g-force to the driver's
body,
> the bests sims are able to communicate well enough through visual and
audible
> outputs that the driver's mind can learn to 'feel' the g-forces being
modeled by
> the computer. Notice I said 'can learn'. How well this is learned is a
skill
> like any other. Some will be better at it than others. Some will learn it
> quicker while other's can become as good with more practice as with any
skill.
> Make no mistake the feeling is very real to the sim driver. The feeling of
> controlling a car at the limit of the car's and driver's potential is the
same
> in a good simulation as it is in a real car, which is not to say a real
car
> isn't more satisfying.
> > so don't tell me gpl is realistic. yeah sure it can help a retard on how
to
> > go round corners, but not how to adjust the car using weight
distribution
> > when the feel through the steering wheel and seat, and the slightly
altering
> > tyre noises tell you alot more than plain visuals can.
> There are many accounts of people who didn't enjoy GPL when they first got
it.
> After seeing how much others were getting out of it tried again and after
enough
> practice found it to be a fantastic driving experience.
> It's sad you haven't been able to get to the point of enjoying the feeling
of
> driving one of the most challenging forms of motorsport that GPL simulates
so
> well.
> > one of the most obvious points is how many racing games (especially
rally
> > games) model the clutch? gpl does but using it or not makes little
> > difference. side-stepping the clutch, double-declutching and heel-toe
> > movements are all required to get fast times in a rally car, but does
any
> > racing sim model the clutch? does any set of steering wheel/pedals have
a
> > clutch pedal? i think not. electronics are bad, semi-auto 'boxes and
> > suchlike should be outlawed, wings removed, and no traction control,
abs,
> > esc or any other electronical aids should be allowed. then the best
driver
> > in the world can be named.
> Whether a sim models the function of the clutch pedal is irrelevant to the
> fundamentals of how well it models the driving experience.
> I tend to agree driving aids have hurt some forms of motorsport but there
are
> plenty of others that restrict various technologies and produce some of
the best
> racing.
> Marty
Hi Rafe
Co-drove with Brock for HDT in the VL's for the 1987 season.
Working day and night with Chris Kelly (the developer of the Bathurst
track).
I have enlisted the help of Owen Kelly and Russell Ingall. So between 3
Bathurst V8 Supercar drivers and Chris, we hope to get it as close to real
as we can. We've made some big changes over the last week and the run over
the top of the mountain is now near perfect. Really captures the "roller
coaster" feel.
Almost all the younger V8 drivers, including Russell, and quite a few of our
top F/Ford drivers own Hypers, as do many Indycar drivers. We have also many
very top end and VERY famous European (German) drivers who own Hypers but
wish to remain anonymous.
Except for some of the American drivers, almost all drive GPL and ONLY GPL.
The Austalian V8 drivers reckon GPL feels like a V8 Supercar in the wet.
We have a Hyper Stimulator Race Center in Melbourne Australia where the V8
boy's get together on a regular basis and race all night on a 7 way LAN
set-up. And let me tell you these guys can steer. Jason Bargwanna had never
driven Milano before and after a 15 min practice, qualified with a 2.16:82.
Garth Tander was only 1/10th behind. Steven Richards and Paul Dumbrell were
in the low 17's.
Cheers Jon.
<snip>
AHA! MS admits that monkeys could drive modern F1! AHA!
;-)
I can see a whole new sport coming on... It combines features from some of
the most popular TV shows: motor racing and vet programs (oh, and apes means
we can attract WWF viewers too). Now if we can factor in makeovers for the
colour schemes and styling ("Darling, all this carbon fibre is soooo 1990's.
We'll throw it all out and replace it with wood.") we have a sure-fire
winner.
And I'll bet they would overtake.
--
Tony Whitley
GPLRank -0.54
MonsterRank 407 and falling...
"On some laps I'd get as many as fif*** corners really right, but Moss, he
gets them all right on every lap" - Von Trips after the 1961 German Grand
Prix.
> > I'm not talking about the 60's or 70's at all.. all I'm saying is that
> all
> > these aid's have runied the sport. They have undoubtly made F1
easier...
> > take Kimi Raikonen for instance.. his 23rd *ever* car race and he
scores
> a
> > point in F1???
> It's called young, natural talent. Guys his age and with his experience
> dominate in all sports. Tiger Woods puts men with 20 years more of pro
> experience to shame.
--
Tony Whitley
|
| <snip>
| > Michael Schumacher
| > refuted this when he said: "I mean, now, with all the electronics you
| > can use, there are people who say monkeys could drive these cars.
| > But believe me: they could not, at least not as fast"
|
| AHA! MS admits that monkeys could drive modern F1! AHA!
|
| ;-)
|
| I can see a whole new sport coming on... It combines features from some of
| the most popular TV shows: motor racing and vet programs (oh, and apes
means
| we can attract WWF viewers too). Now if we can factor in makeovers for the
| colour schemes and styling ("Darling, all this carbon fibre is soooo
1990's.
| We'll throw it all out and replace it with wood.") we have a sure-fire
| winner.
|
| And I'll bet they would overtake.
|
|
| --
|
| Tony Whitley
| GPLRank -0.54
| MonsterRank 407 and falling...
| "On some laps I'd get as many as fif*** corners really right, but Moss,
he
| gets them all right on every lap" - Von Trips after the 1961 German Grand
| Prix.
|
|
|
|
|
|
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> > I'm not saying Jon doesn't really believe what he wrote about sims in this
> > thread, but, how could he say anything else when he's asking people to pay a
> > lot of money for a hyperstim?
> So, according to you, he's either deluded or lying? You really are
> pathetic! Now David, are you trolling or are you just plain stupid? Come
> on, you can tell us.
A little review of the last 24 hours.
Friday practice. Montoya was going every way but forward while RS was smooth
and under control.
RS qualified fourth, .8 higher than JM who finished eighth (typical result
this season). The so called *rookie* Montoya (same age as RS-26, CART vet,
F1 test driver, F3000 driver) was matched by Raikkonen (who must be a rookie
rookie rookie rookie rookie compared to Montoya) in a lesser car.
Which leads me to.......
The Speedvision announcers (hear me revved and ED) commented that the
drivers are sliding the cars even more this year because, as Coulthard said,
the drivers are pushing the cars even harder due to the traction control
(one of those terrible aids which makes F1 so easy for the drivers) making
the cars faster. Ask Sven what he learned about the ability it takes to
catch the rear end of these modern F1 cars when it breaks loose.
BTW, some of the same guys who say the aids in F1 make it too easy for the
drivers make excuses for Montoya coming up short against RS.
As for my comments on Jon and his opinions on sims.......I'd like you sell
you a $2,000 add-on to your daughters Razor scooter. A Razor scooter isn't
just a toy, it's a serious piece of training equipment which will enable her
to be a top motorcyclist racer someday. You need this add-on.
Yep, you kids really did a great job in this thread.
David G Fisher
> Please, you, Thom, Gerry, Edwin, and revved, put me in your killfile. Some
> of you have promised to do this in the past but keep replying to my posts.
> Who needs attention?
When I get bored...last night I was very bored...I like to take one of
my 'merry men' out of my killfile and have him dance for my amu***t.
And last night was DGF's turn.
Gerry
GREAT news :D Looking forward to it. To have some v8 drivers on the
project is fantastic. I assumed it was only going to be a fan's
perspective on how they guessed it would be like, but this is pretty
cool.
Friend of mine Paul Freestone (NASCAR and GTP Lotus driver) has a
Hyperstim with GPL, I only wish I was able to drive it more. :D I'm
surprised that there aren't any other sims that are generally used,
but then again no others really compare, do they?
Is this in Lilydale? I guess so, but that's a hell of a trip for me
from Essendon way. Still, I'll have to check it out next time you're
racing. Do you have this info posted on your website, dates, times,
etc.? I had a decent look, but couldn't find any info. Be great to see
the v8 guns racing in gpl, even better to see it at the Bathurst track
(when its done).
Rafe Mc
Yes Lilydale. But it's a night off for them, so they don't like spectators.
Sorry.
Jon.
> NASCAR!
> Dacid G Fisher
> > You're an ass.
> > > As I said in the other post, "Compared to many people in this world who
> > > struggle to have enough to eat or a safe place to sleep, he was
> privileged.
> > > Was his family at least lower
> > > middle-class to middle-class before he aeaned his first paycheck as an
> F1
> > > driver? Most kids in that position while growing up in a western country
> had
> > > a lot of access to video games."
> > > As far as I'm concerned, almost everyone who lives in a Western country
> in
> > > the second half of the 20th century/beginning of the 21st century is
> > > "privileged" compared to the rest of the current world, and the 50
> billion
> > > or so who have walked this planet since the beginning of mankind. Add in
> the
> > > all the other living creatures like cute little bunny rabbits,
> elephants,
> > > ants, and dinasours, and the difficulty of their lives, and I don't
> think a
> > > construction worker in modern day Germany is really that tough a life.
> > > That's my personal opinion. I think most people are a bunch of cry baby
> > > whiners (doesn't mean they are necessarily bad) and don't have a clue
> how
> > > tough life can really be.
> > > Were going off waaaaaaay off on another r.a.s. tangent. The point is, MS
> had
> > > access to video games while growing up. If someone is reading this post
> and
> > > doens't have a clue why we are talking about this "privileged" stuff,
> you're
> > > not alone.
> > > David G Fisher
>SODA!
>> NASCAR!
>> Dacid G Fisher
>> > You're an ass.
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
> >SODA!
> >> NASCAR!
> >> Dacid G Fisher
> >> > You're an ass.
> PEPSI!
--
ed_
