rec.autos.simulators

Most expensive software compilers can be acquired for free under
training or test licenses, so they work just like real except that you
are not allowed to distribute any programs made with them. I think
this is a fair deal, but obviously it might be a little hard to
prevent documents printed with Word from being distributed.

I use my piano once in a blue moon, but I didn't steal it just because I
felt that I shouldn't really have to pay full price seeing that I wouldn't
be using it frequently! Ditto my golf clubs and club membership......I don't
sneak onto the course and thieve a set of golf clubs simply because I only
play once or twice a year!

Can't you understand that something is either right or wrong (morally,
legally or both)?  It can't be "a little bit wrong" or "mostly right".  It's
either one or the other.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

I can't explain why Office is so expensive; in my experience Microsoft
"Professional" products are poorly engineered, illogically functioning crap.

There is plenty of low-priced software for nonprofessional use, including
versions of Photoshop and Office (Microsoft Works.. I hope the irony of this
title isn't lost on you).

If you've been burned for buying software you didn't like, may I suggest
purchasing at a store which accepts returns?

And let's say you have a project for which you can charge $25 an hour for
your time. If you buy a $50 game and play it for two hours, consider it paid
for. If you play it a lot, you're getting your money's worth and supporting
a company making a good product.

Quit whining.

Andrew

Right and wrong are relative, not absolute (unless you are a religious
zealot.)

Suppose a desperate person broke into your house to steal money to buy food
for their starving child and you shot them dead.

Killing people is wrong, unless it is to defend yourself or your property.
So in this case, killing the intruder was right.
However the intruder probably doesn't think it was right for you to kill
them, since they were doing the right thing stealing to feed their starving
child.
But stealing is wrong, no matter the purpose or rationale.
It is never right to let a child starve.
So the child starves because you shot the intruder.  Does that make killing
the intruder wrong?

Tell me, Bruce:  What is the absolute right and wrong, legally or morally in
this case?  Remember, you don't get to use "should have" in your
explanation, since it has already happened and you can't change it.

~daxe

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Are there demos for stuff like Photoshop, or publisher?  If you think the
software MIGHT suit your needs, or you'd like to maybe learn something about
it(to *know* if you need it), how can you 'test drive' it?  I'm not saying
there AREN'T any demos - I've just never seen any...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. 1:45.49 minutes-GPLRank:342 as of 6/15/00

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yeah, there is a trial version of Photoshop:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/demodnld.html
BUT, the tryout version does not enable you to save, export or print
artwork.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Skotty Flynn
"skotty20"
Nascar-Racing-Sims.Com:
http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com
The Ultimate Sim Racing Directory:
http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/directory/
The Garage Area Discussion Forums:
http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi

Since software is reproducable in an immaterial way, it is about the only
product that can be "stolen" without actually taking something away. Taking it
doesn't coincide with the other not having it anymore. This is kind of a new
situation, and it doesn't fit all too well into our classical right/wrong
scheme.

We, as a society, determine all together what should be considered wrong and
what should be considered right. In general, people agree pretty well about
these things. The fact that there is such an enormous amount of pirated software
going around is not necessarilly *only* an indication of how bad everything is
going on the m***front. Categorizing all the people, who have pirated versions
on their HD, as criminals just can't be right. 95% of them wouldn't think about
stealing something from a supermarket. And that is not because they are too
stupid to see that "pirated software is the same!!"

I'm pretty confident that the majority has more than enough morality left and
will honestly ask themselves the question whether they should pay for everything
that is on their HD. If they REALLY make USE of it, they will probably pay for
it.

At least, that's how I feel about the situation.

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

        If you believe that you've got to be one of the most naive numbskulls
I've never had the pleasure to meet.  Life is filled with shades of gray,
friend.  Just about nothing is black or white.

        And nothing would stop you from occasionally using the piano down at
some club you hang out at or at a friend's house.  For that matter you can rent
golf clubs and, generally, try them out before you buy them.  (At least swing
them at air, anyway.)  I think the general problem being discussed here is the
practice of the software industry to obfuscate as much as possible the full
package of a piece of software until after money changes hands.  If the
industry really cared as much as they say about "casual" pirates they would be
trying to come up with ways to extend the capabilities of demos and trial
versions as well as short-term licenses.  (Need office to write your resume and
only your resume?  5 bucks for a one week license.)  Instead, companies are
concentrating on stopping the "professional" pirates who counterfit and sell
products masquerading as the "real thing."  In the scheme of thing, letting my
little brother play with my copy of "Star Wars Racer" just isn't important to
the company that made it.  (Heck, considering I haven't installed or played it
myself, there is no problem whatsoever.)  However, if I were to buy Star Wars
Racer online, get the copy delivered, and find it is a
close-but-not-quite-exact counterfit, the company would have worries.  The
latter does lead to _major_ losses.

                                        -Tim

                                        -

 is that software IS a special case. Maybe we would

        Nope.

        Actually, software is no different than any other form of intellectual
property.  Books, movies, music, pictures, software--they are all the same.  In
our current age of fast electronic transmition, the ability to quickly copy and
"pirate" intellectual property is easier than ever, but software is not at all
unique.

        However, all intellectual property is very different from other forms
of property,  Theft is, quite simply, not the same for each.  They are treated
with different legal rules and language.  Much of the current hand-wringing
over software is quite the same as struggles over the unauthorized copying of
books in the 18th and 19th centuries.  (And earlier, actually.)  The
intellecutal property that I deal with the most is of the printed sort.  For
the most part in this day and age, book piracy is a thing of the past.  
However, note that books are now incredibly available for free to just about
anyone for limited amounts of time.  I only buy a book when I really want to
have it as part of my personal collection, otherwise I use the library.  I
believe that software will move towards similar setups eventually.

        Not I, necessarily.  I've got plenty of software that I haven't payed
for.  Granted, it's all freeware, but the effect on the industry is about the
same.  I make sure to look for free software that will do what I want instead
of paying outrageous prices for some of the commercial software packages.  In
effect, the industry has "lost" revenue as I am not buying their wares.  While
the industry may love a definition that can call this immoral--profit is their
only m***absolute, after all--I doubt many others would agree.

                                        -Tim

That, and for Photoshop, who actually needs that?  Paint Shop Pro is IMO
more than I'll ever need and it's a little over 1/10 the price of
Photoshop...and all the easier to get for free too...

IMO, software over $50 is piracy...THERE ARE COMPUTERS THAT COST LESS THAN
OFFICE PRO!!!!

--
Kirk Lane

GPLRank: 229.48
ICQ: 28171652
AIM: Kirker64
(IM me twice so I can reply...using a beta client)

"The time has come for me to kill this game
Now open wide and say my name"
- "Space Lord", Monster Magnet

Electronics Boutique.

--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)