rec.autos.simulators

I believe they have a very heavily modified version. Apparently you've
just a few HPs, one or two shots and you're dead, no Stim-Packs and
certainly no SPACE BAR respawn. Apparently it's to teach the basics of
squad-level tactics in a cost-effective manner.

You can get lots of kit to enhance your flying experience, yokes, big
monitors, pilot seats, etc, at much less than the $5M or so a
full-blown hydraulic surround vision system would cost. Flying is a
very technical business, and the sims simulate all this business.
FPSes don't require you to reload your weapon correctly - Quake
doesn't have controls to move your two arms, open breech over knee,
get ammo out of belt, move into position, close weapon, etc, etc.

Yes, that's why I play racing sims. However, in my experience, they
don't translate very well. First, I am pretty bad at Quake, but we had
an office away-day at an activity centre, and I beat everyone, game
players and non-players, at both real live shotgun clay pigeon
shooting (this was the very first time I, and most others, had ever
used a real firearm - we were in the UK) and archery, again, the first
time with a bow. Second, at the same day out, we had Honda Pilot
racing - off-road buggy things - I was second fastest there as I think
my knowledge of car handling and racing enabled me to slide the thing
about a bit more. Finally, I went on a weekend away to Germany with a
bunch of F1GP fans: I was about the worst at F1GP, yet at one of the
go-kart tracks we visited I was just a whisker behind beating an
Austrian champion karter. I only ride karts about once a year, if even
that.

Tabloid hype over facts. Technically, yes, it simulates killing, just
as films (or even TV News shows) contain
how-to-actually-kill-in-real-life reenactments, or for TV News, from
what I hear about US TV, probably real life real deaths.

No I'm not. The point you, or the Talking Head on 60 Minutes, are
trying to make is that Quake somehow models real-life. Where's the
SPACE BAR in coffins?

I think I read somewhere that the guys involved made a video for a
school drama class or something about a year ago that involved them
killing people in the school.

Quake does not simulate recoil, hand shake, etc, and real life guns do
not have the benefit of big white crosses (OK, maybe a laser sight
does) that shows you where you are going to hit.

Did he also have any real-life firearms range training? Just as I be
more likely to trust a pilot who'd had 10 hours in a real plane versus
100 hours in MSFS. Of course, if she'd had both experiences, I'd
probably trust her more.

Are you going to extend the same level of supervision to TV and video?

No, because I can clearly see that Quake is just a diversion. My
chances of being confused for a mutant space cadet are rather small.
If Quake III comes out with slo-mo arty and***replays every time
you get a fraq, then yes, I will be uneasy.

I think they are now trying to sue games companies too. Video games,
however, don't have the high degree of realism that movies do.

Ken

I happen to be around quite a few parents and their children every day. I've
wondered for the past few years how these parents can idly stand by and let
their children run riot without any correction or supervision whatsoever. The
mystery was cleared up when I heard a parent utter the most ridiculous
philosophy imaginable: "They're little spirits, and shouldn't be inhibited in
any way." Well, spirits come in all stripes, and some are downright evil unless
taught to respect the "spirits" with whom they share the world. Hell, even
puppies are trained not to pee on the carpet.

To nudge this thread back on topic, we stand to lose our rights to uncensored
media and video games (and to own firearms, if that's your thing) if idiots are
going to use them as re-enforcement of their unchecked ***s on society.

It all starts with parents' obligation to RAISE their kids---not just allow
them to reach ***hood  with the mentality of children.

Back to my Lotus,
Trey Behan

Also true, and I don't advocate the banning of ANYTHING because of a few nut
cases (with the possible exception of guns themselves - why give these
idiots the means to carry out their sick fantasies?) What I am uncomfortable
with is giving these people access to their own personal 'training ground',
and the ability to feed their urges. What's the answer if we don't ban the
games (and I don't think we should...)? I don't know. I CAN say that I won't
let my kids have a computer in their own room where I can't tell what
they're doing with it. (And no, not just because of games, and no, not a TV
either...)

Absolutely!!! The argument is always 'guns don't kill people, people do'.
Bullsh*t... why give these idiots the means to do it more quickly and
efficiently...

Keith (trying to get off my soapbox now...)

I know this doesn't really belong here, But......
I was on a jury a few years back for a drug and gun peddling *** and I was
amazed that ANYBODY could walk into a Bait and Tackle shop in Ohio sign a form
saying they are not a criminal and purchase 21 hand guns with cash and walk out !
No waiting, no background check or anything. Yeah, I think something is wrong
here !!!
George

I've lived in Indiana all of my life and have taken many walks in the forest
(us "harum-scarum manics" call them "the woods")  I've never once been poked
by an arrow nor do I know of a single person who has.  I watch my Pacers get
beat by the Orlando Magic last night.  At halftime, all 16,500 of us broke out
our *** rifles and titanium-tipped arrows and had a rippin' up, kick-ass,
good ol' Hoosier hillbilly time!!!  Not really, although an older gentleman
did take a *** tumble down the stairs during a timeout.

It sounds as though that if I ever ventured to Scotland that I would probably
be depicted as the "ugly Hoosier."  I may fall back on my sterotyping
instincts and tell my friends back in Indiana that everyone in Scotland is a
"kilt wearin' fag."  Coming from the outside, it may be quite shocking. No, I
doubt it.  I'll likely take my chances and just stay here, cruise the country
roads in my MG, daydreaming of Scotland while keeping an open mind it's locals
and avoiding such idiotic stereotypes and paranoia.

Have your friend email me, John.  I'll show him where it's safe to walk.
Unbelievable.

Cheers,

Jim

I don't understand your point...

I've seen all those movies, most of them are masterpieces of art.  Kubrick
has done one of the best disturbing movie of all time with A Clockwork
Orange, Tarantino started the "new style/old style" cinema with Reservoir
Dogs, and NBK, even though it's not Stone's best movie, has some incredible
memorable scenes.

I've seen A.C.Orange multiple times, and haven't yet become a mass-***er.
99.999999999999999999999% of the people who saw those movies are all like
me.  So your telling we are more entitled to be *** after watching a
piece of art than playing a game where you interact and show emotions
towards ***? (because a movie is art, remember).

Just stop everybody pointing fingers. It's a complex macro-society problem
in America.  It's made of all those little micro-systems like movies, games,
gun laws, parents negligence, awareness, school, young ***agers social
skills, medias, etc...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm sure if I ask him nowadays he would say much the same thing - such
a reaction can only come from the contrast of moving to somewhere for
the first time and the culture shock experienced. My first time ever
in the U.S. I flew into Portland, an impressionable ***ager. Shortly
after landing I took the underground rail link between the two
terminals and as it was late at night it was almost empty - just me
and a security guard with what looked like a cannon holstered around
his waist. A serious shock for me, since guns were only what you see
in the movies as far as I was concerned, and in the UK people working
in security jobs are generally not considered as the sharpest tool in
the box (horrible stereotype, I know). I was somewhat perturbed.

Other than people trying to get money from tourists you're unlikely to
see any kilts in Scotland. (Sorry to the Scottish Tourist Board if I'm
shattering any carefully crafted "Braveheart" style illusions!) :-)

I'm sure he knows. After his neighbours advised which guns to buy,
where he could and could not safely shoot intruders etc etc he decided
to ignore everything and do his own thing. As you say, "unbelievable".

Cheers!
John

You see it on TV, at the movies, but if you experience gun handling
comparable to owning a cellphone, it's quite scary...

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

The fact that the National Rifle Association, and the ***s in the U.S.
Congress on their payroll, actively fight to keep weapons like this in public
circulation is abhorent to me and to most reasonable people.

Sorry for contributing to this off-topic thread, but I live 30 miles from
Columbine High School and know many people who live in Littleton.

Dave Ewing

j

p.s. - i don't own a gun, but i hope that you do.

Oh shit, I've watched all of those movies AND played months of Quake -
someone better lock me up before I do something mental and it is
conveniently blamed on the games.

Movies, games and indeed *** acts themselves are only the symptoms
or, if you like, the results. What has caused such movies to be
popular and *** to be common is where attention needs to be
directed. You could well find that games like Quake are in fact a
channeled outlet for pent-up urges and desires, and in banning such
products people may find rather more public ways to vent these.

Knee jerk reactions without understanding a problem are more likely to
be a quick fix to keep people happy rather than doing any actual good.
Unfortunately that's almost a dictionary definition of "politician".

Cheers!
John

How about a Little House On The Prarie sim? (Sorry, just trying to get a little
bit on topic for the group).

The kids could come in the front door with a plastic bag, a tube of glue and
announce they were going to get high. As soon as they entered their bedroom
there was nothing we could legally do to stop them. On occasions we knew there
were weopons and/or hard *** in the room but we couldn't confiscate them or
even report the matter to the police.

Why? Because kids have a right to privacy backed up by legislation and law. If
people are to be held resposible for the actions of "mature" ***agers then
allow us to excercise proper supervision wihtout the interference of social
workers and do gooders!

How about a delinquent sim? (lets get back on topic or move this to another
forum!)