worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but
because you have more invested in the racing experience.
Marc.
Marc.
The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was
unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that
the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating themselves
from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After
spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have
made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny
for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
Mark
>Marc.
>> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP
>> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in
>5th
>> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him.
>> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able
>> to continue.
>> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was
>> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that
>> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
>themselves
>> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
>> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After
>> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
>> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have
>> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny
>> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
>> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
>> Mark
Andre
>>Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems
>>worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but
>>because you have more invested in the racing experience.
>>Marc.
>>> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP
>>> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in
>>5th
>>> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him.
>>> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able
>>> to continue.
>>> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was
>>> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that
>>> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
>>themselves
>>> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
>>> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After
>>> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
>>> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have
>>> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny
>>> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
>>> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
>>> Mark
> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it
seems
> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better),
but
> >because you have more invested in the racing experience.
> >Marc.
> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a
GP
> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running
in
> >5th
> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping
him.
> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been
able
> >> to continue.
> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I
was
> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply
that
> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
> >themselves
> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there.
After
> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I
have
> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a
penny
> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
> >> Mark
> What? And which racing game has a better AI then? Even though the AI
> makes mistakes now and then, I love racing against the AI. And if you
> don't like racing the AI, you can allways race online?
A game who have great AI is a game where AI drive cars like human . I mean
dynamics is computed for AI. In GPL/ICR/Nascar AI just compute the position
of the car, and AI can move the car like it want.That mean that AI can do
impossible thing with the car. Like passing me at outisde hairpin and faster
than me :o( ( ICR2 - Long Beach ). Or recover car when everybody would losed
it ( GPL - Crash at last monza corner ).
But, that mean computed dynamics for 25 cars ! sic ! will need a P9 1Ghz.
I don't know if dynamcis is computed in GP2, but it seems that it is.
--
====================================
Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer
--
Toni Lassila
> > GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files.
> Just AI cars that wreck in the exactly same corner in the exact same way
> and make no mistakes anywhere else, and push each other out in the same
> place lap after lap.
Maybe the strategy of AI are betters in GPL but i think AI are better
driver in GP2. I mean , in GP2 , AI drive a car and
are not simulated like in GPL.
--
====================================
Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer
Zog
> > No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step
> backwards, a
> > large part of the reason I quit the game.
> > >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it
> seems
> > >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better),
> but
> > >because you have more invested in the racing experience.
> > >Marc.
> > >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a
> GP
> > >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running
> in
> > >5th
> > >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping
> him.
> > >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been
> able
> > >> to continue.
> > >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I
> was
> > >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply
> that
> > >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
> > >themselves
> > >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
> > >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there.
> After
> > >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
> > >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I
> have
> > >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a
> penny
> > >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
> > >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
> > >> Mark
> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
> Just AI cars that wreck in the exactly same corner in the exact same way
> and make no mistakes anywhere else, and push each other out in the same
> place lap after lap.
--
Chuck Kandler #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!
Marc.
> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it
seems
> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better),
but
> >because you have more invested in the racing experience.
> >Marc.
> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a
GP
> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running
in
> >5th
> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping
him.
> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been
able
> >> to continue.
> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I
was
> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply
that
> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
> >themselves
> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there.
After
> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I
have
> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a
penny
> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
> >> Mark
Actually I'm not too happy about the AI in GP2.
They are too goddamn easy to pass! In GP2, you can be a whole
carlength behind them and yet still pass them under braking
because of the timid way they act. A real driver might stick
to the racing line, but a GP2 AI driver will hurl themselves
off the road rather than risk contact with you going into a
corner.
The benefit from a "tow" is way too much as well. Is there
an editor to cut this back a bit? The reality is that if
you're just 0.1 second a lap quicker than a GP2 AI car, then
you are guaranteed to be able to get past him within a lap
or so.
just a rant for the day.
>>GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files.
>Actually I'm not too happy about the AI in GP2.
>They are too goddamn easy to pass! In GP2, you can be a whole
>carlength behind them and yet still pass them under braking
>because of the timid way they act. A real driver might stick
>to the racing line, but a GP2 AI driver will hurl themselves
>off the road rather than risk contact with you going into a
>corner.
I think that the AI in both GPL and GP2 are pretty similar. The only
reason you can pass this easy in GP2 is because the car you are driving
is so much more stable under braking so you can be confident about doing
so into the corner. With GPL you can still get alongside just as easily
- they won't defend the corner - but it is so much more difficult to
brake well in a GPL car. So it is not the AI that has improved, it is
just that the player's braking technique has become the problem.
I once watched an AI race on GPL at Rouen, after crashing out, and the
Ferrari driver continually tried to go offline to pass the car in front
at the same corner every lap, even though it was way too far back to do
so. A corner that a human driver would not even think of passing I might
add. As a result it would lose about half a second which it would then
proceed to claw back during the rest of the lap, only for the same thing
to happen on the next lap, ad infinitum. Not good.
I think that there are 2 main differences between human and AI drivers
which, if implemented, would make them seem more realistic:-
1 - to give the AI a better "knowldege" of the track they are racing on,
ie. where the best places to overtake/defend are, and so they would then
be more prepared to stay behind the car ahead at the corners that were
more likely not to yield an opportunity as well as defend those self
same corners from the car behind. This info would need to be included
with the track data.
2 - to give them a kind of "memory" so that they might actually vary
what they do from one lap to the next, with regard to overtaking based
upon what they tried on the previous lap(s). Then, if you add this
"memory" to what they already know from (1) then eventually they would
"learn" where the most appropriate overtaking place(s) is/are and where
to defend the corner the most.
The second option may be quite difficult/sophisticated to do. However
the first option should be simple enough. I think that with AI it is
quite difficult, when setting out on a project, to know what data will
be useful/required for good AI and what isn't. I would imagine that the
AI system is not worked on until well into any project and by then you
have to work with the data you've got.
Anyway, I've said enough, though this is one subject that really
fascinates me <BG>. Given the opportunity, this is definitely the area
that I would enjoy working on the most.
--
Peter Ives
Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, acceleration
and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot about real
races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before the
hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before the
hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI wouldn't
always slip stream at the smartest place though :o).
/Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy the AI in
GPL, and I'm not ;o)
> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems
> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but
> >because you have more invested in the racing experience.
> >Marc.
> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP
> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in
> >5th
> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him.
> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able
> >> to continue.
> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was
> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that
> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
> >themselves
> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After
> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have
> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny
> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
> >> Mark
>Marc.
>> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step
>backwards, a
>> large part of the reason I quit the game.
>> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it
>seems
>> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better),
>but
>> >because you have more invested in the racing experience.
>> >Marc.
>> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a
>GP
>> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running
>in
>> >5th
>> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping
>him.
>> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been
>able
>> >> to continue.
>> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I
>was
>> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply
>that
>> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating
>> >themselves
>> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be
>> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there.
>After
>> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full
>> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I
>have
>> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a
>penny
>> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me.
>> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind.
>> >> Mark