rec.autos.simulators

We've been using the big Microsoft Force Feedback stick, but this
presents obvious limitations in driving sims.  However, next week I've
got a birthday coming up, and my wife can't think of anything to get me.

Seems to me this sets the stage to ask for a good PC steering wheel and
pedals combination.  Is there any frontrunner among the offerings from
Act Labs, MSFT, Logitech, or any one else?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered a million times before.

Paul

Phil.

Logitech Wingman with force feedback.

The Microsoft Wheel and petals really take the "driving !"  not cheap flimsy
stuff there.
The clamping method Microsoft uses really 'nails' the wheel down to the desk, I
can slam that wheel around and not move the "dash board" !!    8^)
same goes for the pedals - full slam brakes - slam the throttle - no
breaks,chips,cracks.
** the FF wheel and pedals are worth the price. - of course if you can get it on
sale - all the better.
mine was probably the last joystick port model - but that is what i prefer
instead of the usb.  If I was purchasing today - and the only choice i had was
usb - and Logitech had the joystick port model - i would have purchased the
Logitech FF wheel - then maybe designed my own clamping mechanism.

** keep the Digital FF stick to, in NFS you can cut many seconds off your lap
time with that one !!

hope this helps,

** No Fate **

cheers,
dracman
Tomb Raider: Shotgun City
http://www.smokeypoint.com/tomb.htm
http://www.smokeypoint.com/tombraider1pictures.htm
http://www.smokeypoint.com/3dfx.htm
http://www.smokeypoint.com/My_PC.htm

NFS: drive at the limits of tyre adhesion !  snag Lara's Croftraider IV sports
car ! !  NFS3:NFS4
http://www.smokeypoint.com/3dfx.htm#raider

========================
3DFX {voodoo1 api} is contained in the  GF3 NVIDIA graphics chipset
http://www.smokeypoint.com/flash.htm
======================================

Smart kid!  ;-)

Bart Westra

| If you want something that will last go with the ActLabs. TSW is another
| option. How seriously are you going to get involved? That's the real
| question.
|
| Phil.
|
|
| > After a long time on flight sims and strategy games, I picked up copies
| > of GPL, NFS:PU, VR, CART, NL, and N3 for myself and my kid (I'll leave
| > it to you to conclude who made the choices).
| >
| > We've been using the big Microsoft Force Feedback stick, but this
| > presents obvious limitations in driving sims.  However, next week I've
| > got a birthday coming up, and my wife can't think of anything to get me.
| >
| > Seems to me this sets the stage to ask for a good PC steering wheel and
| > pedals combination.  Is there any frontrunner among the offerings from
| > Act Labs, MSFT, Logitech, or any one else?
| >
| > Sorry if this has been asked and answered a million times before.
| >
| > Paul
|
|

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Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Now Thom, don't scare him like that! My TSW2 Cup even after adding the
split-axis was still less than $500...barely. LOL

Back OT though, I have used Thrustmaster (T2) and Logitech (LWFF) wheels in
the past and they were ok, but twere I looking for what I call a "consumer"
level wheel today I would look at the Act-Labs units. I'd probably get their
Force RS and just not use the FF, I hear the wheel itself is fairly smooth
and FF being a "taste" thing that I don't have a taste for any longer.

Just do yourself a favor and follow your instincts, you will need a wheel to
really enjoy those software titles.

Simracer

It looks great, and the shifter works ok, even when hotplugging it in
(it immediately swaps some buttons around), but I have a problem with
this one in that it only centers when I pull the wheel left; it
generally (when turned off) has the feel that it wants to go to the
right much easier than it wants to go the left (much more friction
going to the left).
I emailed them about it (they respond quite quickly; in a day or 2)
and they said it's the cartridge, so I can send that back for a
replacement. I'll try replugging the cartridge one more time and if it
still acts (pun not intended) weird then I'll send the cartridge back
to Canada for a replacement.
Too bad; it would be a nice push to get that Shifter support in Racer.
;-)

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

| Now Thom, don't scare him like that! My TSW2 Cup even after adding the
| split-axis was still less than $500...barely. LOL
|
| Back OT though, I have used Thrustmaster (T2) and Logitech (LWFF) wheels
in
| the past and they were ok, but twere I looking for what I call a
"consumer"
| level wheel today I would look at the Act-Labs units. I'd probably get
their
| Force RS and just not use the FF, I hear the wheel itself is fairly smooth
| and FF being a "taste" thing that I don't have a taste for any longer.
|
| Just do yourself a favor and follow your instincts, you will need a wheel
to
| really enjoy those software titles.
|
| Simracer

| > Phil makes a good point. You can go about as high as $1000 for a
| > TSW wheel or as low as about $80+ for an MS or TM etc. wheel.
| > Try to look at the time you'll use it for now and move from there!
| > Bottom line: Get the most bang for the $buck$ in what you need!!
| > Good luck.. -Thom_j.
| >

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This is the conventional wisdom, but I have to differ.  Now, I've never
tried the new version, so I can't comment on that.  But I bought one of
the old ones on the recommendation of numerous people, and, quite frankly,
I hate it.  

o       The pedals are beyond useless.  They have no travel whatsoever.
o       The wheel is "sticky"-- as you turn it, it sticks, then frees,
        then sticks again, then frees again.  When trying to make fine
        adjustments, you never know how much force you're going to
        have to apply to the wheel to get it to move, so I'd always end
        up applying too much or too little.  This doesn't do much for
        your control.
o       The shifter paddles are flimsy.
o       The shifter paddles are awkward to reach with hands on the wheel.
        I'd end up with my fingers stretched strangely, which gives me
        weird cramps in my palms after a few minutes.  Maybe I just have
        weird hands, but this is how it is for me.
o       The wheel itself doesn't have enough range of motion.  My old
        Thrustmaster T2 (which I have gone back to) turns through about
        270 degrees.  The LWFF barely does 180.  This makes the car
        twitchier and harder to control.
o       The desk clamp is so large and bulky that it blocks my keyboard
        tray.

Now I know that a lot of this stuff can be fixed.  I've seen Alison's
page on how to get more range of motion out of the wheel, another on how
to modify the pedals to get more range out of them, and still another
on a ball-bearing kit to make it smoother.  But I'd rather have one that
is decent in the first place.  I'll probably replace my T2 soon because
it's falling apart.  But the LWFF is not the answer for me.

Frankly, the T2 is perfect, when it works.  But it breaks its pedal
springs constantly, which is really annoying.  And now my pots are
going.

Oh, and if it helps anyone relate, my experience with these wheels is
all in GPL.

        Marc

To follow up on myself, I noticed the weirdest thing; when I *unplug*
the cartridge, the wheel behaves normal (this is all when powered
off). When I plug in the cartridge, which has no direct physical
connection to the wheel, it starts behaving frictional to the left.
I'm going insane! ;-) Like a power plant inside the wheel or
something.
Now that the cartridge is out the wheel feels ok?!?!?

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Mine have had daily use for TWO years now, and still not showing any
sign of wear.

You could well have strange hands! I've never heard that commented about
the LWFF before

The 3rd party support is what makes the LWFF the best IMO.

How old is it?

Hmmm...right....

My LWFF pot are two years old, same ones that came with the unit. It
really is a design classic imo. Looks good and drive beautifully, plus
it's durable too. Infact I love mine so much that I'm getting a
second-hand, hardly used one for 50, I'll add a bearing kit to it and
keep it as a spare.

I agree with you about the pedals though, which is why I replaced mine
with these beauties: http://www.wave.co.nz/~lakewood/Redline2.htm

Cheers

Gerry