rec.autos.simulators

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 05:12:30

According to Ubi Soft, a patch has been completed and sent to the FIA for
approval. It's supposed to be released on the 20th.

Some people still insist that the FIA has no restrictions on what Ubi Soft
can do (like multiplayer).

David G Fisher

by **David Kar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 05:40:30

Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the ambiguities
inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

cheers!
David

by **ymenar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:12:09

> Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
ambiguities
> inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:39:28

So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking? All
truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

David G Fisher

> > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> ambiguities
> > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Jason** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:00:01

Actually Dave, I think Frank is asking him to stop using logic when replying
to you, because then he cannot properly comprehend it himself, and therefore
cannot flame you properly when that occurs.

Logical replies, should in the real world themselves, breed more logical
replies. This will in fact leave Frank out of the conversation, since logic
as we know it doesn't seem to work in that twisted little utopia Frank lives
in.

I suspect this frustrates Frank quite a bit, and is usually accompanied by
fits of fury over capitalism vs. Stone Age economics, and posts that general
read between the lines of "When will the world realize that I am always
right, and that it revolves around me and my idealisms proven to fail in
history."

Don't be alarmed Dave, just walk away. It'll leave him baffled, and
struggling to find logic for its occurence, subsequently leaving an open
question in his mind, since logic does not seem to apply in his world.

Don't play into his hands... he'll drag you down to his level and beat you
with experience.

Cheers,

Schumi

> So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
> particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking? All
> truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

> David G Fisher

> > > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> > ambiguities
> > > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> > Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:55:49

> Actually Dave, I think Frank is asking him to stop using logic when
replying
> to you, because then he cannot properly comprehend it himself, and
therefore
> cannot flame you properly when that occurs.

> Logical replies, should in the real world themselves, breed more logical
> replies. This will in fact leave Frank out of the conversation, since
logic
> as we know it doesn't seem to work in that twisted little utopia Frank
lives
> in.

> I suspect this frustrates Frank quite a bit, and is usually accompanied by
> fits of fury over capitalism vs. Stone Age economics, and posts that
general
> read between the lines of "When will the world realize that I am always
> right, and that it revolves around me and my idealisms proven to fail in
> history."

I really admire the attention you give to me! What a sensation of knowing
people do care about me

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Don Burnett** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:02:43

How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
> particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking? All
> truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

> David G Fisher

> > > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> > ambiguities
> > > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> > Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:15:05

> How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

You didn't know Don? It's all part of the *** to take over the sim
community :)

On the left corner, we have supposedly Me/Papyrus/My Ubisoft bashing.
On the other side, we have DGF/Ubisoft/His GPL bashing.

There are some people who really think it's true. Of course, I don't have
any relation with Papyrus like DGF doesn't have any with Ubisoft. I also
don't hate F1RC, like DGF doesn't hate GPL. We both know that, but exterior
people have different ways of thinking.

But hey, some people (I don't target anybody but the latest words by a J"S"M
kinda hinted that) do think that way. Those people are the same who
completely miss the point that we both bring on the table and are
brainwashed into thinking it's that *** that makes us both post on
the newsgroup, while the two "pugilists" obviously know each other enough
that it is almost tongue-in-cheek. Well my post is hard to understand, but
DGF completely knows about it and that it's useless to use logic in our
situation.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Don Burnett** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:19:58

Awww, that explains it.

:)

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> > How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

> You didn't know Don? It's all part of the *** to take over the sim
> community :)

snip

by **Jason** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:53:36

I suppose Papy was dragged into this post because they seem to get dragged
into every other topic about other games. Mostly by virtue of "The game
sucks, don't buy it, it's no GPL", etc.

Whilst I think that Papy is a great company, and I also think GPL/N4 are
great Sims, some see fit to bash other games when someone asks if it is any
"fun", and if a mistake or an oversight is made by another developer, that
developer sucks because they are not as perfect as the Papy guys.

So in retrospect, I suppose that DGF's comment was based on something that
went a little like this:

Ubisoft needs to put a patch on F1RC (I agree with this statement), but so
did GPL (numerous patches).
Ubisoft are not perfect, but neither is Papy (I can name at least a dozen
screwups by Papy, but to error is to be human, move on...).

Correct me if I am wrong Dave.

Cheers,

Schumi

> How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
> > particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking? All
> > truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

> > David G Fisher

> > > > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> > > ambiguities
> > > > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> > > Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:06:01

You've got it just about right. After almost four years on this newsgroup,
one thing I'm sure of is that there is one set of rules for Papyrus, and
another for the rest of the developers.

David G Fisher

> I suppose Papy was dragged into this post because they seem to get dragged
> into every other topic about other games. Mostly by virtue of "The game
> sucks, don't buy it, it's no GPL", etc.

> Whilst I think that Papy is a great company, and I also think GPL/N4 are
> great Sims, some see fit to bash other games when someone asks if it is
any
> "fun", and if a mistake or an oversight is made by another developer, that
> developer sucks because they are not as perfect as the Papy guys.

> So in retrospect, I suppose that DGF's comment was based on something that
> went a little like this:

> Ubisoft needs to put a patch on F1RC (I agree with this statement), but so
> did GPL (numerous patches).
> Ubisoft are not perfect, but neither is Papy (I can name at least a dozen
> screwups by Papy, but to error is to be human, move on...).

> Correct me if I am wrong Dave.

> Cheers,

> Schumi

> > How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

> > --
> > Don Burnette
> > D Burnette in N4

> > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > And THAT is wrong.

> > > So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
> > > particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking? All
> > > truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> > > > ambiguities
> > > > > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> > > > Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> > > > --
> > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:13:06

> You've got it just about right. After almost four years on this newsgroup,
> one thing I'm sure of is that there is one set of rules for Papyrus, and
> another for the rest of the developers.

First of all, the majority of people who are the "N4 community" are no more
here, they have left for Jacob's NG. So the people here are only GPL fans.
It might be a shock what I will be telling you. If you take a peek there,
you'll see that we are :

1) Not happy about Papyrus' decision to shut their mouths about the patch
2) VERY unhappy about N4, with many people who simply have left the
community or are racing other sims
3) We've heard plenty of rumors that the patch doesn't fix all the important
problems

And yes, that includes me. I am 'fed up at Nascar Racing 4. I haven't
loaded it for almost a month. The CD is taking dust. The AI isn't very
good. I don't run pickups (no veteran does anymore since the NROS has
closed), so the leagues are the only alternative left. So everybody has
flocked on them, but there is another problem. N4 can't have consistent
standings, so it's impossible to have serious league racing at the moment.
And if you pass through WON's server list, you get some very weird warping
for everybody.

Like F1RC, it's a great hotlapper. But hotlapping in N4 is VERY boring. So
most of the community (the veterans, now the newbies satisfied by anything)
are not really happy at the turnovers created by SIERRA and their lack of
customer support.

So Papyrus sets the standard now? I don't think so.

Happy now David?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:14:01

***?? DID SOMEONE SAY ***?? Have I ever told
you how GM and Ford engineer'ed the Gas Crisis and Global Warming to kill
the
Chrysler\Dodge Hemi engine???????
dave henrie

by **David Kar** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:51:50

Geez folks, I was just pointing out that there *really were* ambiguities in
DGF's post that would allow two (ostensibly) mutually-exclusive statements
to, in fact, be truthful.

This ain't nuclear war!

cheerio,
David

> You've got it just about right. After almost four years on this newsgroup,
> one thing I'm sure of is that there is one set of rules for Papyrus, and
> another for the rest of the developers.

> David G Fisher

> > I suppose Papy was dragged into this post because they seem to get
dragged
> > into every other topic about other games. Mostly by virtue of "The game
> > sucks, don't buy it, it's no GPL", etc.

> > Whilst I think that Papy is a great company, and I also think GPL/N4 are
> > great Sims, some see fit to bash other games when someone asks if it is
> any
> > "fun", and if a mistake or an oversight is made by another developer,
that
> > developer sucks because they are not as perfect as the Papy guys.

> > So in retrospect, I suppose that DGF's comment was based on something
that
> > went a little like this:

> > Ubisoft needs to put a patch on F1RC (I agree with this statement), but
so
> > did GPL (numerous patches).
> > Ubisoft are not perfect, but neither is Papy (I can name at least a
dozen
> > screwups by Papy, but to error is to be human, move on...).

> > Correct me if I am wrong Dave.

> > Cheers,

> > Schumi

> > > How did Papyrus get dragged into the below posts?

> > > --
> > > Don Burnette
> > > D Burnette in N4

> > > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > > And THAT is wrong.

> > > > So when Papyrus tells you they can't do this or that, or include a
> > > > particular track or car with their sims, it's really God speaking?
All
> > > > truth? And when Ubi Soft speaks, it must be the devil?

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > > Those two things can both be true, so long as one recognizes the
> > > > > ambiguities
> > > > > > inherent in "According to Ubi Soft."

> > > > > Please stop using logic when replying to DGF :)

> > > > > --
> > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:08:58

Actually, you might even be right there. Only, the rules aren't an
different, but the way of criticism is. The reason being, the people at
Papyrus focus on creating a simulation first, and a game on top of it,
while, for the most part, other developers start from a creating a game
with simulation elements in it. Considering that this is indeed a
simulator discussion newsgroup, that's only natural.

I'm sure WSC (when it gets released) will recieve a similar treatment to
Papyrus' products in here.

-Gregor

> You've got it just about right. After almost four years on this newsgroup,
> one thing I'm sure of is that there is one set of rules for Papyrus, and
> another for the rest of the developers.

> David G Fisher

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