rec.autos.simulators

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

John Simmo

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by John Simmo » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


It's called "improving lap times".  Of course, he's trying to run over
course workers, so what does he know...

I almost have to sort of half-way kinda agree with him.

So how is this different from nascar2 (one of the games he claims is his
favorite).

If he's paying that much attention to the track-side objects, maybe that
explains his inability do drive.

Damn - a positive comment - what do you want to bet that he picked the
Ferarri?

Music in GPL? The only music I hear in the sim is the sounds of the other
cars going by me.

Peole with smaller than average brains should not be allowed to review
simulators.

--
=========================================================
John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's
shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Jeffrey Hunsberge

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Jeffrey Hunsberge » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I have been waiting to check avaults review for weeks. Of course, the
reviewer must've played a different game than the one I am currently
obssessing over....  see my comments below.

: GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars  - **1/2

: A few notable comments:

: "After being frustrated with how hard it was to drive the car I
: tried running over a few officials, but they might as well not
: have even been there. "

Well, this comments sets a tone for who is doing this review.  Maybe he
should think about clicking on his Carmageddon icon instead.

: "Gamers need some sort of encouragement that they are doing better;
: they don't need to be thrown into a complex driving model that is
: going to take weeks to get competent at."

Encourage this! It is a simulator, not an arcade game!

: "It would have been nice if Sierra would have included a more
: arcade-oriented version of the physics model "

Ah, I see...oh please.

: "Sierra expects the gamer to know how to set up the car for each
: track in order to obtain the best track times. The manual has nothing
: in it to show people what each setting does and how to go about
: setting up a car for a certain track."

Did I get the same game here?  Doesn't 4wheel Drift cover that stuff?  And
there ARE default setups if you feel un-technical.  I usually whang around
in the default setups until I learn the tracks anyway.

: "The graphics are good as far as these types of games go, but
: they give no sense of awe or wonder. "

Excuse me.  Even at 640x480 at Zandvoort with 19 AI cars screaming for
turn one, my jaw was*** open.  This guy was running 1024x760 with a
300mhz and it complaining about framerate while in heavy traffic!

: "The car makes a nice roar sound when you give it some gas. "
:  

Try the Ferrari, Skippy.  It sounds pretty good.  "Nice roar" doesn't even
begin to cover it.

: " The musical score is spartan at best. I don't really think that it
: matters much in this type of game, however. I can say that the music
: does nothing to set the mood of the game nor does it give me any
: sense of enjoyment just for music's sake. I quickly turned it off.
:  ( uhhh... did he actually run GPL? )

Must be reviewing a different game.  I don't have music in my version.
Maybe boneheaded reviewers get a special copy...

: "I can still picture most people returning Grand Prix Legends a
: few days after they buy it."

Even with my machine's wacky problems running GPL, it is the best sim
purchase I have ever made.  If I ever get this V2 of mine working like it
should, it may likely be the only entertainment I need for months.  For
now, my V1 runs it spectacularly and I am having a blast.

Sorry, Avault.  You just lost all credibility with me.

J.

: --
: (  rrevved is at mindspring dot com
: (  post in haste, repent at your leisure

Krabme

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Krabme » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I think the reviewer has some good points.

He acknowledges the great physics engine, but also points out that it's not for
the faint of heart. GPL is for the hard core simmer, and it is not a mass
market title.

It requires a loaded machine to run decently against a full field of AIs.
Despite this, it still runs in that stupid letterbox format.

You are on your own when it comes to setups. Steve Smith's book is decent, but
it does not do a great job of getting a newbie going with good setups.

I love GPL, but I would not recommend it to anyone who has a life (or wants to
maintain one) outside of sim racing.

Even if people don't return GPL, there will be a lot of copies sitting on
shelves gathering dust. (Not mine!)

Regards,
Krabby

Zonk

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Zonk » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars  - **1/2

>Full (incompetent) review:
>http://avault.com/reviews/gpl.asp

>A few notable comments:

>"After being frustrated with how hard it was to drive the car I
>tried running over a few officials, but they might as well not
>have even been there. "

He's quite right, really. Do you think marshalls are going to stand still
waving their flags when a car comes at them. :)
They shouldn't be hurt, but seeing them run for cover, would be quite cool.

A quite good point.

Maybe not arcade orientated, but a less complex/easier to drive  phsyics
model- with the same options on racing, would have been a welcome edition and
enhancement for a large number of users.

Again, a valid point. The "engineer" wizard in CPR was a very valid addition
to the genre of sims, and i'd like to se such things appear more often.

If they can, indeed, but i can't help think he's got some quite valid points.
GPL certainly could of benefited with a multiple level of driving "realism".
Not dumbing down- but two distinct levels, could have made the title more
accessable for a larger audience, and i can't help but wonder how anyone could
consider that a "bad" thing.

Z.

DPHI

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by DPHI » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Chris Miller really has no clue....

Send your letters to:

http://avault.com/letters/

-don

"To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caracciola

Ronald Stoeh

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Ronald Stoeh » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


> GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars  - **1/2

> Full (incompetent) review:
> http://avault.com/reviews/gpl.asp

> A few notable comments:

Thanks, now I have a strained back after falling off my chair... ;^)

How do they seperate those kids from their playstations for 10 minutes,
so they have time to write reviews like that?

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

John Walla

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by John Walla » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Exactly - so why does he review and rate it as if it was?

Cheers!
John

Zonk

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Zonk » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00



>>He acknowledges the great physics engine, but also points out that it's not
> for
>>the faint of heart. GPL is for the hard core simmer, and it is not a mass
>>market title.

>Exactly - so why does he review and rate it as if it was?

>Cheers!
>John

Because is a general 3D *** web site, and it is reviewed as it is likely
to be recieved by it's audience?

Z.

DPHI

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by DPHI » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>> GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars  - **1/2

>> Full (incompetent) review:
>> http://avault.com/reviews/gpl.asp

>> A few notable comments:

>Thanks, now I have a strained back after falling off my chair... ;^)

>How do they seperate those kids from their playstations for 10 minutes,
>so they have time to write reviews like that?

>l8er
>ronny

Following is the email I recieved from avault after comenting about the
review...

"Ummmm, there is music in the menu system...

So, this is what it's like huh? You can't win no matter what you write,
there is gonna be some crack pots who know how to use email that will
always complain.

Craig"

ROTFLMAO!!!! I stand by my belief  that this person has no clue....

-don

"To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caracciola

ymenar

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by ymenar » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

http://www.avault.com/letters/

Us, as the SimRacing community, can't accept to be dissed by such a gamer.
Let's ALL post our comments about him.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

ymenar

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by ymenar » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

ymenard wrote

This is my letter :  PLEASE all do so, we can't accept to be dissed by such
gamers.  Im just sick and tired of those arcade drivers who have no
knowledge of the hard-core market and their needs.

=============
First of all, greetings. My letter is to complaint about the review you made
about Grand Prix Legends.  I can easily represent the whole people by saying
that we will boycott your website if changes aren't made to the review.

It has some great innacuracies and seriously some points that make me think
he NEVER reviewed the game.

First of all, let me say that most of the game reviewers aren't hard-core
simracers, and this is the market for GPL, as such air sims like Longbow,
etc...   GPL is a serious simulator that acts and feel like the REAL 1967
Formula 1 cars. Nothing less, nothing more.  From all the other simracing
titles, GPL is at least 1year if not 2 years ahead of the others, and really
put every of them in the dust. That includes old and even current titles
such as ColinMcRae Rally, MonacoGP from UbiSoft, any Microsoft racing "game"
and even every Papyrus title.  It is a big step forward in racing accuracy
and virtual simulation. The biggest step EVER. Your reviewer really show he
has no knowledge in racing simulations.

" The musical score is spartan at best. I don't really think that it
matters much in this type of game, however. I can say that the music
does nothing to set the mood of the game nor does it give me any
sense of enjoyment just for music's sake. I quickly turned it off.

HEY ? AVAULT ? Did he really reviewed it ? He's LYING.  There's no music in
GPL. By saying he quicly turned it off, he's LYING !!! PLEASE, WE WANT A
PUBLIC APOLOGY. The reviewer has no idea about what he tested. This
pathetic. If Avault doesn't publicly say they are sorry about the harm they
did to the hard-core racing community, we are seriously boycotting your
website. This is just a stupid reviewer that probably tested it for 15mins.
By saying he turned off the music, with DOESN'T EXIST, he is just
pathetically "talking shit".

"After being frustrated with how hard it was to drive the car I
tried running over a few officials, but they might as well not
have even been there. "

This really represents how "arcadish" his view of racing simulators is. He
is telling us he can't master it, so it's crap.  It really humiliates us,
the racing simulation community that is researching for the real thing
always. We won't accept canned physics and unrealistic features.  I was
shocked by such comments from Avault, a professional *** website.

"Gamers need some sort of encouragement that they are doing better;
they don't need to be thrown into a complex driving model that is
going to take weeks to get competent at."

Well, I am sorry, but practice is really the key. Nobody can hop in a
real-life racecar and think he can beat the track record. It needs practice,
practice and more practice. If he can't master GPL, it's not our fault. But
please don't dis GPL because of that.  What if a game reviewer came and told
"I can't master Quake 1 so it must be crap". It's just immature comments and
really humiliates the racing community with such comments.

"It would have been nice if Sierra would have included a more
arcade-oriented version of the physics model"

And another point that represent that the reviewer probably tried it 15 or
so minutes.  This it the major ADVANTAGE over every other racing title. The
game engine is REALISTIC at 100%.  This is the approach Papyrus has did
since year. They are a racing simulator company, not an arcade ***
company. Their goal is to make a realistic virtual reality racing simulator.
Not an arcade game.  Another point that shows that the reviewer has no
knowledge of the racing market and their needs. Another *** to us.

"Sierra expects the gamer to know how to set up the car for each
track in order to obtain the best track times. The manual has nothing
in it to show people what each setting does and how to go about
setting up a car for a certain track."

WHAT ? Did he really read the manual ? He probably NEVER read it, since
there's 50page on how to tweak the car setups for GPL. FIFTY !!!! Each
settings is told in great details. So tell me, did he really tested the game
correctly ??? If he can't setup a car, it's not my fault. There's plenty of
_ARCADE_ games made for that. But PLEASE  don't humiliate us, the hard-core
simracers in research of the best accuracy that  carsetups are worth
nothing.  If the person doesn't know how to set up his car, he isn't the
targeted market for GPL. Still, the default setups are incredibly well done
and made by real-life racecar drivers to suit the average driver with a good
field of comprehensive and raceable setups. Another ***.  Just read
rec.autos.simulators and you will see that we are _ALL_ raging against the
reviewer. We are really tired of people who hits on realistic simulations
just because they are too hard.

"The graphics are good as far as these types of games go, but
they give no sense of awe or wonder. "

Another bad point. All what I wrote are FACTS, and really shows that the
reviewer has no knowledge of the racing market. The graphics are top notch
in ACCURACY. Sure, "games" like Need4Speed III have great graphics. The
designers and artist have no limits of their imagination and can create
anything they wan't. But in racing simulations, it's acurracy that counts
and another time, Papyrus made the step higher with incredibly REAL-LIFE
graphics. Every real-life details that was in 1967 is REALLY there. All of
them. The track engine is incredible. No other company can beat them, with
banking, evelations, camber on the track, etc..  The other companies can't
do that. Papyrus can. The reviewer doesn't know that.

"I can still picture most people returning Grand Prix Legends a
few days after they buy it."

Hahahaha. Please. That's why it's the most praised racing simulation in the
HISTORY ? Remember, we had Gp2, Nascar1 and Nascar2 who all had 90% and more
ratings from every *** magazine. And how he say that it's ***with 2 and
half star ?  And it's why it's presently in the top5 in sales ?

We need a public apology. It's such ***that I felt bad for himself after I
read that. Of course, if you ship him with the newest Jane's Air combat, he
will probably say it's ***because it's too difficult for him.  Another
"gamer" without a knowledge of what's a real racecar and how it should
perform.  In the future let him review arcade  racing games, but let to
another the point of reviewing hard-core racing simulators, who has a market
and has plenty of people who like them.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Jay Wolf

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Jay Wolf » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


> A few notable comments:

> " The musical score is spartan at best. I don't really think that it
> matters much in this type of game, however. I can say that the music
> does nothing to set the mood of the game nor does it give me any
> sense of enjoyment just for music's sake. I quickly turned it off.
>  ( uhhh... did he actually run GPL? )

either you are extremely irresponsible, or the author was made to realize
his rediculous err. here is the clip from the "review" regarding MUSICAL
SCORE:

Musical Score: There is no music in the game so I didn't rate this
section. Heck, the game is
            supposed to be set in the sixties -- they missed their chance
to get some really good music in the
            game to provide a mood. It obviously would have been
inappropriate while racing, however.

j

dafn

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by dafn » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

        Ditto  , amen ,etc.  And they say there is no passion left in
today's world.


Jay Wolf

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Jay Wolf » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

no man alive should be forced to face the wrath of ymenard!

; - )

Jo

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Jo » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars  - **1/2

That's hard to believe, from the sie that loves everything (and
continually gives any old dreck that EA serves up rediculously high
ratings and fawning reviews).

Joe


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