rec.autos.simulators

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

John Walla

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by John Walla » Wed, 04 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>One of the biggest problems facing the fighter pilot was information
>overload....he just cant concentrate hard enough on all items that
>absolutely demand attention. Therefore he dies....

Presuming of course that he is actually being soht at - the example I
gave was FS98, and being jumped by Fokkers is unlikely over 1990's San
Fransico!

Cheers!
John

Randy Magrud

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Randy Magrud » Wed, 04 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>To me both are extremely similar in that they demand absolute
>attention. Pilots who dont pay attention, die...simply put.

Not entirely true.  Military pilots have long characterized their
lives as "long hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer
terror".  Most missions consist of flying both into and out of
military territory, some of which is over friendly territory.
Depending upon the situation in the theater, there can be either a lot
or a little relatively down time where basically you're just flying
the plane and regularly checking the status of things.  The closest
equivalent in racing would be going down a straight uncontested and
relaxing your fists and enjoying the absence of heavy lateral G's.
For the most part, though, a racer is going to be in the equivalent of
a long sustained dog fight for a couple of hours, whereas most
aircraft missions are designed to get in, mix it up, and get out as
fast as possible, and then, of course, you have CAP missions have a
lot of flying around in lazy circles while you or your backseater keep
checking the radar to make sure no one is entering your zone.

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

papa..

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by papa.. » Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Hold up here.....in a high threat war. Lets take the 1973 Arab Israeli
war....do you think that the pilots were whistling to work. Only to
remember that when it happened....that "Hey they are trying to kill
me..." Or for another example do you think the British fighters
defending the homeland were singing tunes whilst climbing to altitude
to defend the homeland...????

Of course not. The guys who get bored while flying Cap die....the guys
who let their mind wander die....cause the enemy has a *** habit of
showing up where they are not supposed to be.

This is all pretty funny...is your intention to say that Racers have
it more difficult than someone who has people "intent" on making him
die..? I think it might be a considerably smaller field at Indy if the
Racers understood that not only was their craft gonna remain dangerous
but now someone was gonna stand on the sidelines and actively attempt
to***their day up permanently.

I still believe that both types are very similar.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~plegrand/PINKFLAMINGO.htm

Pat Dotso

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Pat Dotso » Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:00:00


> This is all pretty funny...is your intention to say that Racers have
> it more difficult than someone who has people "intent" on making him
> die..? I think it might be a considerably smaller field at Indy if the

I don't think anyone is saying that it's easier to win a
dogfight in F15 than to complete a clean lap in GPL.

It is probably true, though, that it is more likely that
someone who has played all other flight sims available
could successfully take-off, fly around the airbase,
strafe the tower, and land a plane on the first try
in F15, than a person who has played all other racing
sims could drive a clean lap around Nurburgring in GPL
on their first try without crashing.

That probably makes GPL a bit harder for a beginner to
get started with, simply because it's less intuitive
to drive a car in a sim environment than to fly a
plane - the cues are more subtle.

GPL and F15 are probably equally difficult to master
in heavy combat, but, with no other distractions,
the act of simply flying the plane is surely easier
than driving the car.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Randy Magrud

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Randy Magrud » Thu, 05 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>Hold up here.....in a high threat war. Lets take the 1973 Arab Israeli
>war....do you think that the pilots were whistling to work.

Given that Israel is about the size of Maryland...NO.

Do you read many books by aviators?  Or are you just guessing?  I've
read a lot of books written by pilots during the Vietnam and Gulf
Wars, and while saying they are "bored" would be stretching it when
flying a fighter plane, it would be fair to say there are some fairly
significant dead spots of basically  transit time.  Obviously the
pucker factor increases at various times, but its not like the guys
are up there pulling heavy G's from the time they take off to the time
they land.  A lot depends upon just how much time they have to sit
there making a long trip to or back from a mission.  In the case of an
Israeli fighter pilot, they are only minutes from their base to the
enemy territory so certainly there aren't those long dead times for
them.

You are erroneously equating difficulty with fear or battle adrenalin.
Sitting and solving a calculus problem in a library can be difficult
even with no fear or adrenalin.  Difficult can also be physical, as in
difficulty controlling the vehicle due to heavy G forces.  Difficult
can also refer to attentiveness and focus.   I won't let you try to
use "difficult" as a one-size-fits-all adjective to put words in my
mouth here.  There is no one global description that is going to fit
every pilot and every mission.  Some missions have long periods of
relative inactivity built into them and those periods are certainly
not "difficult" by several possible definitions.  Others are scramble
under pressure with only moments to deal with the threat.  

Again, you're talking fear vs. difficulty.  The two might affect one
another, but they are not co-equal.

I believe that most of the time they are very different.

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

plegr..

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by plegr.. » Fri, 06 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Yea I have glanced at a few....<G>

Sorry you misunderstand the problem. Its not about fear...though that
plays a small part in both professions. Im talking about sheer
overload...once the pilot reaches the battle area he is one extremely
busy person....probably the old pilots were busy waaay before the battle
area (which is why they got to be old pilots)....the pilot like the
racer is concentrating extremely *** the task at hand...he is busy
monitoring systems, watching the sky, threats, wingman, watching the
sky, and his controller. He is concentrating every bit as hard if not
harder than the typical racer. I say harder NOT because the pilot is
somehow superior but because his tasks are so spread out ....the racer
doesnt have near the systems or worries the pilot does...so they are
both concentrating hard. This also translates into the sims....I have
been in matches online that lasted over 2 hours and to say that I wasnt
concentrating is not to understand how much I like winning. A BVR fight
in a sim is a extremely engrossing extremely hard juggling act....just
as going around SPA is extremely hard...and very much a act of
concentration.

Sorry but they disagree with you....they, both Racers and Pilots think
they have lots in common. Both their duties and their abilities...vis a
vis mental concentration and focus.

PAPA DOC

Randy Magrud

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Randy Magrud » Fri, 06 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>Sorry but they disagree with you....they, both Racers and Pilots think
>they have lots in common. Both their duties and their abilities...vis a
>vis mental concentration and focus.

"they"?  As if you've heard from every pilot, and if you asked them to
break down in detail what is the same and what is different I'm
confident you'd find that they are pretty much in line with what I'm
saying.  You keep trying to make sweeping generalizations and it just
doesn't work.  I've already said I agree that they have some things in
common, but they also have some aspects that are very different.

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

papa..

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by papa.. » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

A certain Car Magazine (may have been car & driver) did a story on the
similarities, interviewing both pilots and drivers. Thats one
source...also personal experiences with friends who had experiences in
both fields....and stories from others in the flight sim group. That
probably doesnt qualify as ALL of them...but a sufficient number to
put more weight behind it than your opinion. Sorry.

Also my point is when they are in a combat zone they are just as
heavily tasked as a Racer...if not more so....well probably to be
honest they are MORE heavily tasked.  Actually way more tasked than a
racer...

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

http://home.earthlink.net/~plegrand/PINKFLAMINGO.htm

Randy Magrud

GPL - Avault review = 2 1/2 stars - **1/2

by Randy Magrud » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>A certain Car Magazine (may have been car & driver) did a story on the
>similarities, interviewing both pilots and drivers. Thats one
>source...also personal experiences with friends who had experiences in
>both fields....and stories from others in the flight sim group. That
>probably doesnt qualify as ALL of them...but a sufficient number to
>put more weight behind it than your opinion. Sorry.

Here's news for you....my opinion is also based upon more than what I
personally think.  Hope you aren't too disappointed.

Aha!  "when they are in a combat zone".  Hello?  Please go back and
read my messages and you'll find I stated basically the same
thing...nothing like arguing with someone who isn't reading what you
write.

Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder


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