rec.autos.simulators

The sims that dont allow this type of empty headedness make for
incredible gameplay by allowing the players who wish, a learning curve
that will offer them something new even months later. This is the type
of sim that builds company reputations.....and company loyality.

Empty headed sims get rave reviews by sites run by empty headed people
who forget about that sim the next day to move on to the next hot
thing. Its something akin to the hardware freak whose only role in
existence is the next hot thing.....he doesnt actually every use his
puter just upgrades and benches it. Same same with the empty headed
gamer....he doesnt actually every play the sim....he just fools around
until the next hot thing.

Now this doesnt mean that Im not all for giving the gameplayer plenty
of choices on how he is gonna play. In this aspect I feel that Papy
fell short....they truly did NOT provide enough options and settings
to make it accessible to everyone. I like that word choices....some
freak made a big deal about that on the flight sim newsgroup sometime
ago and I have to agree....CHOICES its my game allow me to play it the
way I want.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~plegrand/PINKFLAMINGO.htm

As a famous Dark Lord of the Sith would say "Apologies accepted, Captain
Miller", while ***  him to death ;)

I said in an early post here that us, mostly a group of Hard-core simracers,
push racing companies like Papyrus to create more realistic racing
simulations. I doubt we would accept for them to make steps backwards heh ?
Im fully with Papyrus to push the limits of every title and make it more
"real".  Oh and I said often, it's a long road ahead, but titles such as GPL
make big steps toward what we will call "the Virtual Racing Nirvana", where
SimRacing will be considered at the same point of reality as real-life
racing, taking out all the monetary aspect and physical out of the product
that we all know as real-life racing.

Well, we are a little group, as we know.  And I understand the reviewer that
our market is pretty little compared to the *** market, with the Doom
clones and so...

I think that Nascar Racing 2 somehow made the compromise in that. We have
the simulation aspect, and also an "arcade feature" for the more casual
gamer market.

Im not saying it's a step backwards. Not at all. It's an "option" to
increases sales. More sales = more money to Papyrus. More Money = better and
bigger staff at Papy. Bigger staff = less pression during development
somehow. More money = more realistic titles. Finally.. more realistic titles
= better for all of us. Im not really against GPL. Not at all. It has a
market.  Jane's Longbow has a market also.  Hard-core RPG has a market.

***, as an industry, will continue and continue to be "more realistic".
THIS is the point itself of Virtual reality.  Since we all should understand
this is virtual reality.  Naturally it becomes more realistic.  I mean, did
Mr. Miller really though that making games more "simplest" was good ? I
don't think so, as a Hard-core simracer. and _THAT_ is the market for GPL
and even Nascar Racing 3.

And it's funny to see his point. He want's more simplistic games, but he
flames them by saying you don't get the feeling out of the car. But by
making GPL less realistic, you WONT have a better feeling out of it !!!

Oh well, people will never be happy

He is welcome to hold the opinion that sims shouldn't be TOO
realistic, but IMO there are already enough "dumbed down" racing
titles out there catering to him, and I for one an very glsd that
someone at least is writing for those who really DO want that ultimate
challenge that he rejects.

There's no problem to want easier racers, but advocating making all
products like that to suit his taste doesn't wash. It could be argued
of course that a product should cater to both markets, having arcade
abilities within a sim. In reality that will always detract from the
time available for developing the sim side, and we're more likely to
see N2 style products with an arcade option tacked on than something
which offers GPL and NFS3 style in the same box.

Anyway, no problems with anyone's opinion (whether I agree or, as in
this case, not), as long as it isn't whacked up as a review.

Cheers!
John

but he's right in such that the thus far poor slaes of GPL due to it's
difficulty could lead to a lack of such titles in the future.

It would seem for a title to do well, it;s going to have to cater for the mass
market as well as the "hard-core".

Z.

True - especially if a hard-headed publisher exec looks at the relative
sales of NFS3 and GPL it may be very difficult to get publishers to buy in
to hard-core only sims.

I love GPL  - but in our office we have 14 people connected to our network
and we generally play games at lunchtime. Most of the time there's only 3 or
4 of them I can get to play GPL, and only 2 of us are on the pace for proper
racing, and that's after having the game for a month. Like the reviewer
said, there's only relatively few people willing to invest the time
necessary to become competent at a sim like GPL.

- Michael

- Michael

Michael Powell heeft geschreven in bericht

I doubt that GPL has been developed as a moneymaker. I think it was the
driving-engine that it was about, and GPL was something Kaemner very much
wanted to do regardless of commercial succes. More or less as a fan of that
era. It was a now or never project and GPL  is sort of a test-vehicle for
the Big Moneymakers: NASCAR2000 and CART 200x. I hope he get's the chance to
make those..............

Harald

Congrads, the funniest post i've read in ages!

Z.

ooh... no... apparently I read that right. I would suggest you think about
things a little more carefully before you post again.

M

p.s.
if it wasn't made for profit, why sell it at all. Why not make it for
download? Or is that a silly question?

I'm not sure that it is true about poor sales of GPL, given that we
know neither Sierra/Papyrus expectations, nor the sales in other areas
of Europe and the U.S.. Remember that GP2 sold enormously in Germany
even in comparison to the U.K..

No argument there, it's something I've long believed. Trouble is, as a
sim fan I want sim titles to do really well AND to be be as accurate
and realistic as possible - addition of an arcade mode will inevitably
detract from the sim mode, and to what extent will depend upon the
developer. At the same time I believe that any product which can
accurately blend the two will do very well - GP2 is a case in point,
and probably the best example we've had to date. I'm not sure if
anyone is capable of succesfully blending a good sim with a good
arcade mode, but I'd love to see the result if it could be done. I
imagine the sales would be exceptional also.

Cheers!
John

Not everyone can drive a formula one car at pace, but some do so very
succesfully. So too with a sim, you can't expect that everyone will be
able to manage it.

For me driving GPL is now second nature, and I would actually struggle
to describe WHY I do what I do when driving, why particularly my feet
dance between brake and gas through a turn and what particular cue
causes me to do what I do. Something prompts me that such an input
would help and I do it. I've watched others who play and enjoy GPL as
much as I do and yet can't get the hang of it - similarly I've watched
people who play GPL less than I do and yet are far more talented,
obviously giving better inputs to the sim and/or catching and
interpreting the cues better.

Not that much different to real racing I think - a spectrum of
abilities produce a range of results. As sim drivers we've learned to
rely upon different cues than "real drivers", and I've often heard the
comments about lacking depth-perception and "seat-of-the-pants" feel.
There's not much that can be done about this with today's technology,
but given the success that a lot of sim drivers have it seems to have
been amply compensated for.

Cheers!
John

Z.

Dutch is only one left with GPL in at number 5.

I believe GPL in germany peaked at Number 2, but has since fallen.

Z.

I really hope that GPL doesn't put people off before they get the chance to
see how good it really is.

- Michael

I think a big gain has been made with today's high resolution 3D - 800x600+.
When you are racing, a large amount of your attention is spent on a
particularly small field of view, as you look up the track to where you want
to be in a certain period of time. This area in 320x200 used to be just a
few pixels - now its hundreds.

- Michael