rec.autos.simulators

by **ymenar** » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I just wanted to say that the most realistic racing simulator ever made is
ranking as high as Power F1 and Daytona USA Deluxe by Avault.com "Wow" are
my words. What an ***.

BOYCOTT AVAULT !!!! BE UNITED AS A SIMRACING COMMUNITY !!!!

by **kenb** » Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Thanks for everyone who gave their advice on this problem. I ended up
getting a different SLI cable and that solved the problem. The 2 cards
work great in SLI now!!
Ken

http://gamepad.org

by **DPHI** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

They've already been removed from my bookmark lists.

-don

"To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caracciola

by **Paul Jone** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

If you want to get together to boycott this site, you may find you want to burn
history books and deport people who have different political and religeous views
to you. Hell, the guy gave his well-considered thoughts about the game. Yes, he
found it too hard but that is his right. Some people are going to have different
opinions to you, and I think you should learn to live with that. Avault has been
a source of scores of downloads for many of us and you are now trying to
organise a boycott of the guy's site because of his view. Spare me, please.
Paul

> I just wanted to say that the most realistic racing simulator ever made is
> ranking as high as Power F1 and Daytona USA Deluxe by Avault.com "Wow" are
> my words. What an ***.

> BOYCOTT AVAULT !!!! BE UNITED AS A SIMRACING COMMUNITY !!!!

by **Pete** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

At last, a voice of reason speaks......I logged on this morning to read
about what's happening in the world of GPL and all I read are piles of
vindictive posts regarding one persons review of the game.

What does it matter if he doesn't enjoy it as much as you? Ignore it and
move on.......life is too short to get so wound up about such a small
thing.....

Chill out people, please can we return to discussing the game now?
Ta, Pete

by **dafn..** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

At last, a voice of reason speaks......I logged on this morning to
read
about what's happening in the world of GPL and all I read are piles of
vindictive posts regarding one persons review of the game.

What does it matter if he doesn't enjoy it as much as you? Ignore it
and
move on.......life is too short to get so wound up about such a small
thing.....
Simply a poor review and inaccurate one means decreased sales.
Decreased sales means less chance of seeing anything of such quality
in the near future. Besides with the breakup of the team already
after Nascar3 or ICR3 and possibly GP3 the future does not look
bright. Games will tend toward the masses and start to look more
and more like a Playstation game or N64 game ugh.

>At last, a voice of reason speaks......I logged on this morning to read
>about what's happening in the world of GPL and all I read are piles of
>vindictive posts regarding one persons review of the game.

>What does it matter if he doesn't enjoy it as much as you? Ignore it and
>move on.......life is too short to get so wound up about such a small
>thing.....

>Chill out people, please can we return to discussing the game now?
>Ta, Pete

>> If you want to get together to boycott this site, you may find you want
>to burn
>> history books and deport people who have different political and
>religeous views
>> to you. Hell, the guy gave his well-considered thoughts about the game.
>Yes, he
>> found it too hard but that is his right. Some people are going to have
>different
>> opinions to you, and I think you should learn to live with that. Avault
>has been
>> a source of scores of downloads for many of us and you are now trying to
>> organise a boycott of the guy's site because of his view. Spare me,
>please.
>> Paul

by **John Walla** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:55:00 +0000, Paul Jones

>If you want to get together to boycott this site, you may find you want to burn
>history books and deport people who have different political and religeous views
>to you.

You may live in a world where you agree with people or burn them, but
others find themselves able to disagree without resorting to such
black and white extremes.

If a car magazine (general or otherwise) is given a Ferrari F355 to
review they don't compare it with a family runabout and mark it down
because of lack of shopping space and nowhere to put the dog. If they
did we would think them buffoons. I see no difference between that and
Avault's review.

Cheers!
John

by **Paul Jone** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I think the comment about burning history books etc was heavily laced with irony,
which I admit is a tone that transmits poorly over the internet. Having said that I
think the guy is entitled to his opinion and has the right to speak it without being
flamed. If we start taking the stance that no one is allowed to criticise a sim, then
this ng starts to lose its interest. I want to know peoples frank views on software.
For every negative review of a sim there are usually several positives (except in
F1'97's case) and we can are left to make up our own minds. GPL is a top chart-seller
it's not going to be rocked off course by one or two bad reviews. If bad reviews
destroyed sales then judging by the consensus view of F1'97 it should have bombed,
but in reality we see they have found the $13m for Bernie's licence until 2000 and
something and are in the process of releasing F1'98. Most press reviews of GPL have
voiced an opinion that is very hard but have not affected sales nor attracted the
amount of vitriol that this one has. When I read all the flames about it this morning
I went to avault expecting a really crass review. The guy has clearly spent some time
on the review, and though I differ with his conclusions, I cannot say that they are
poorly supported. All I can say is that I disagree, just as I don't like peanut
butter but my sister loves it. Neither of us are wrong. I think someone famous once
said "I disagree with what you say, but I will die to defend your right to say it".
Paul

> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:55:00 +0000, Paul Jones

> >If you want to get together to boycott this site, you may find you want to burn
> >history books and deport people who have different political and religeous views
> >to you.

> You may live in a world where you agree with people or burn them, but
> others find themselves able to disagree without resorting to such
> black and white extremes.

> If a car magazine (general or otherwise) is given a Ferrari F355 to
> review they don't compare it with a family runabout and mark it down
> because of lack of shopping space and nowhere to put the dog. If they
> did we would think them buffoons. I see no difference between that and
> Avault's review.

> Cheers!
> John

by **ymenar** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Paul Jones wrote

Of course, that's what you may think, but my vision about what I wrote is
different...

Consider that I guessed that 1500 people won't buy GPL because of the
review. That's 1500x35$ for the product. Let me speculate that 10$ goes
back to Papyrus, just a speculation but just think it's true... that's
1500x10$ of money that won't be spend on future racing simulators by
Papyrus.

Just because somebody took his situation and abused of power somehow. I
mean, 15k$ isn't that big, but it's still money that can't be spend in the
future. This is mostly why I was jaw-dropped by this review. As a
SimRacing community, it _ALL_ affects us when such things happen. I just
can't see the point of people being for the review. We should ALWAYS stick
together and be "pro-SimRacing", especially with the incredible technical
achievement that is GPL.

In your opinion, you really think GPL should be leveled with PowerF1 ? That
the currently most realistic racing simulator ever made is ranked 2 and a
half stars by a powerful *** website ?

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Trip** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

> What does it matter if he doesn't enjoy it as much as you? Ignore it and
> move on.......life is too short to get so wound up about such a small
> thing.....

It's no small thing. We need to make an example of this reviewer so no
one else will dare to not like GPL. Our very lives depend on it!!

Trips

by **Raev** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

No need to boycott anyone,
Avault has provided me with several years of pretty damn reliable
reviews, and if they've raved about a game and I've bought it, 90% of
the time I've been happy. I will say that Avault and some magazines
for that matter are not always 'into' racing sims like we are and they
tend to give games like Daytona USA (yikes!) much better reviews than
they deserve.

My Eagle needs new tires,,, after 5 races!

Raevyn

by **Randy Magrud** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

If GPL fans want to boycott someone, start with Fry's Electronics,
which not only has not been carrying GPL, but has NO mention of it in
their computers. They don't know what it is, and they aren't getting
it. And this is a MAJOR source of software here in central CA.

>No need to boycott anyone,
>Avault has provided me with several years of pretty damn reliable
>reviews, and if they've raved about a game and I've bought it, 90% of
>the time I've been happy. I will say that Avault and some magazines
>for that matter are not always 'into' racing sims like we are and they
>tend to give games like Daytona USA (yikes!) much better reviews than
>they deserve.

>My Eagle needs new tires,,, after 5 races!

>Raevyn

Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

by **Paul Jone** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I agree with you about the ranking, Fran?ois. F1'97 is ***y appalling even by
arcade standards. It is the worst game I own, and I only own it out of a wierd
obsession to collect every racing game or sim I can. I would give it half a star
because I like Martin Brundell's commentary. GPL on the other hand is a fully
fledged simulation with as complete physics and vehicle modelling as you can
find anywhere outside NASA. Even in the graphics department where people often
offer up F1'97 as "eye-candy", GPL outshines it in much the same way that the
sun outshines a potato. So, from our standpoint to place the two on the same
level is gross.
But look at the game from a typical gamers point of view. GPL is horrendously
difficult if you've never raced before. To get a half-decent lap time you have
to understand when to brake, how to take all the different types of corner
double apex, late-apex etc, speed scrubbing etc when many gamers don't even
understand what the racing line is. And that's before the bonnet's been opened.
If you're writing a review to a regular *** audience you should point out
that GPL is a great simulation - which he does - but you are entitled to say how
hard it is - which IMO he overstates, but that's his right. It's not an entry
level sim and an entry level driver is going to struggle. Perhaps avault is not
the place for a review of GPL, perhaps this reviewer is not the right person to
do it, but that's not our call.
What I object to is the vitriol that this guy has been exposed to. I believe
passionately in free speech provided that no one is prejudgiced for reasons of
birth - colour, country, creed, physical ability etc. I like my news to have all
points of view. I read the article and didn't agree with his views, but he has
the right to say what he says and that's far more important than $15,000 extra
budget to Sierra which would probably go straight to the shareholders in
dividends anyway.
If the countless post on this review had been presented in a more sober and
thoughtful manner, I wouldn't have got so angry - more persuasion and less
passion is needed. Threatening to boycott avault if the guy isn't sacked is an
apalling sentiment. I am reminded of the McCarthy era.
Paul

> Paul Jones wrote
> >I think the comment about burning history books etc was heavily laced with
> irony,
> >which I admit is a tone that transmits poorly over the internet. Having
> said that I
> >think the guy is entitled to his opinion and has the right to speak it
> without being
> >flamed. If we start taking the stance that no one is allowed to criticise a
> sim, then
> >this ng starts to lose its interest. I want to know peoples frank views on
> software.
> >For every negative review of a sim there are usually several positives
> (except in
> >F1'97's case) and we can are left to make up our own minds. GPL is a top
> chart-seller
> >it's not going to be rocked off course by one or two bad reviews.

> Of course, that's what you may think, but my vision about what I wrote is
> different...

> Consider that I guessed that 1500 people won't buy GPL because of the
> review. That's 1500x35$ for the product. Let me speculate that 10$ goes
> back to Papyrus, just a speculation but just think it's true... that's
> 1500x10$ of money that won't be spend on future racing simulators by
> Papyrus.

> Just because somebody took his situation and abused of power somehow. I
> mean, 15k$ isn't that big, but it's still money that can't be spend in the
> future. This is mostly why I was jaw-dropped by this review. As a
> SimRacing community, it _ALL_ affects us when such things happen. I just
> can't see the point of people being for the review. We should ALWAYS stick
> together and be "pro-SimRacing", especially with the incredible technical
> achievement that is GPL.

> In your opinion, you really think GPL should be leveled with PowerF1 ? That
> the currently most realistic racing simulator ever made is ranked 2 and a
> half stars by a powerful *** website ?

> - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
> - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
> - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
> - Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by Jo » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

>Avault has provided me with several years of pretty damn reliable
>reviews,

You're being sarcastic right? Right???

Avault has the worst reviews. Any old crappy dreck EA serves up gets
4.5 stars minimum, automatically. Then when a real quality game comes
along they slam it.

Joe

by **John** » Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:00:00

It was barely ironic. It was just a good point well made. It's his problem,
not yours.

>I think the comment about burning history books etc was heavily laced with
irony,
>which I admit is a tone that transmits poorly over the internet. Having
said that I
>think the guy is entitled to his opinion and has the right to speak it
without being
>flamed. If we start taking the stance that no one is allowed to criticise a
sim, then
>this ng starts to lose its interest. I want to know peoples frank views on
software.
>For every negative review of a sim there are usually several positives
(except in
>F1'97's case) and we can are left to make up our own minds. GPL is a top
chart-seller
>it's not going to be rocked off course by one or two bad reviews. If bad
reviews
>destroyed sales then judging by the consensus view of F1'97 it should have
bombed,
>but in reality we see they have found the $13m for Bernie's licence until
2000 and
>something and are in the process of releasing F1'98. Most press reviews of
GPL have
>voiced an opinion that is very hard but have not affected sales nor
attracted the
>amount of vitriol that this one has. When I read all the flames about it
this morning
>I went to avault expecting a really crass review. The guy has clearly spent
some time
>on the review, and though I differ with his conclusions, I cannot say that
they are
>poorly supported. All I can say is that I disagree, just as I don't like
peanut
>butter but my sister loves it. Neither of us are wrong. I think someone
famous once
>said "I disagree with what you say, but I will die to defend your right to
say it".
>Paul

>> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:55:00 +0000, Paul Jones

>> >If you want to get together to boycott this site, you may find you want
to burn
>> >history books and deport people who have different political and
religeous views
>> >to you.

>> You may live in a world where you agree with people or burn them, but
>> others find themselves able to disagree without resorting to such
>> black and white extremes.

>> If a car magazine (general or otherwise) is given a Ferrari F355 to
>> review they don't compare it with a family runabout and mark it down
>> because of lack of shopping space and nowhere to put the dog. If they
>> did we would think them buffoons. I see no difference between that and
>> Avault's review.

>> Cheers!
>> John

rec.autos.simulators

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating

Btw, about the Avault GPL rating