rec.autos.simulators

  Another thing.Does GPL not model the fact that when you go past your
maximum slipangle by truning the wheel to far that you will lose grip
at the fronts.It seems they dont and I feel this is a very good thing
that they added since we cant feel the grip losin the wheel.
Skeeter

With all due respect, by referring to the addition of force feedback to GPL
as just a "simple FFB patch", you seriously underestimate what's involved in
such an undertaking. With its many subtleties, reproducing road feel and
variations in traction at the steering wheel, in a realistic manner, is not
the veritable child's play that you seem to suggest. Your implication that
Papyrus could produce the desired effect with a "simple" patch is tantamount
to saying to a racing game developer, "Well that's a great physics engine
you have there. Now how about just *** up a good visual interface to go
with that?"

No one has really pulled off the force feedback trick yet. Look at SCGT.
They have force feedback. But force feedback road feel? None, that I could
discern in my limited exposure. Think they wouldn't have liked to have
implemented it? It's not there because 1) they didn't have the expertise to
implement it or 2) its implementation would have taken too long or been too
costly.

As a mechanical engineer, familiar with the physics being modeled, and as a
software developer, I'd suggest that anyone anticipating force feedback in a
1.1 version of GPL not hold their breath. Which, incidentally, is by no
means a criticism of Papyrus. My experience suggests that force feedback is
a GPL 2.0 feature, at earliest.

Finally, you seem to say that GPL does not model excessive slip angles
accurately. Have you ever powered through a high speed sweeper sawing at the
wheel from side to side while maintaining a relatively steady path along the
racing line? The accurate modeling of excess slip angles is exactly what
you're experiencing as you maintain control while madly flailing at the
wheel.

Jack Rambo

Oh, I'd even buy a second copy of GPL to get FF in that sim!

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

I have it, Ronald. Having done some SCCA campaigning a number of years ago,
Viper Racing doesn't stir any responses in my old and feeble mind.

Jack Rambo

  theres some new things out in the FFB scene and you can read about
it here.WWW.force-1.com

Skeeter

l8er
ronny

--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

l8er
ronny

--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

"Loose" and "Lose" mean different things and they are spelled differently.

You "Lose" grip, you are "Losing" grip.

The steering wheel does go "Loose", but it is if you "Lose" grip.  The car
can be tighter or "Looser".

A person who does not win is a "Loser"

"Loose" is the opposite of tight.

"Lose" is the opposite of win.

As long as I am setting myself up to get flamed for knowing how to spell, I
might as well add that the middle pedal is the brake.  Contrast that with
something else that folks seem to have trouble getting...

It's not a "Break" pedal.

It's not a brake "Peddle"

The readme for SCGT even uses the misspelling "Peddle".

I'm sure the people who can't spell correctly don't think it matters, but I
own a business, and if you come in to apply for a job and your application
looks as good as someone else's but they can spell and you can't, guess who
gets the job?

~daxe

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Yeah..there's a million of 'em.  I tried decaf and everything, but I still
can't stop getting worked up over this junk.  Something in my upbringing, no
doubt.

Thanks for having a sense of humor and humoring me.

~daxe

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Here's another one for you:
"Would you BORROW me your ***?"

Have fun... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

David G Fisher

David G Fisher

 >Buy ViperRacing, then you know what's possible...

I think GPL is, by far, the most awesome racing sim yet.  Consider me
a fan of GPL.

I insist that good FF can be done, because I've seen it.

So much for sweeping generalizations...

Brett

Hi Skeeter,

Now that I've stopped to consider your point, it makes a whole lot of
sense.  While I don't have a difficult time staying straight at high
speeds, it would be nice to have even the most basic feedback that you
describe.  Good point.

As for your second point, it seems to me that I could never turn far
enough (at high straight speeds) to loose grip at the front.  The lock
just doesn't seem great enough, then the back end just breaks loose.
At low cornering speeds, I definitely get understeer.  At least,
that's how I remember it right now...

Brett

I'm not following you here :-)
I definitely get understeer when adding exessive lock, while I was
delighted to find
that if I gave the wheel a good 'ol twist on a straight, I got into BIG
trouble.
This was the most annoying thing about ICR2 and N2, you could just
swerve like
a maniac on the straights without spinning!

I would love to see really good feedback implemented into GPL, but
that would be really difficult to get right. Somehow, I think I am
sensing what the car is doing anyway! GP2 also got this right, apart
from a
few of G.Crammonds ideas (reaction to kerbs..ugh, just like REVS!)

All best,

Matt
-----------------------------------------
Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/simrace1.htm
-----------------------------------------