rec.autos.simulators

David G Fisher wrote

It can be done David...

Don't over-generalize :)

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I've yet to see it...

Eric

As far as I'm aware the current problem with FF is the latency involved.
For example if in the sim you calculate that the steering wheel should have
a torque of
say 10 pounds force you need to send that command to the FF wheel. The time
for
that command to be sent can be longer than the time it takes to update the
display. So
what ends up happening is that the Force "Feedback" is slightly delayed
compared to what
you are seeing on the monitor. This delayed feedback would cause problems in
how you perceive
the car feels.

Of course you can do "canned" effects that play a lot quicker because they
are built into the wheel
and do not take a long time to set up. These canned effects can be wheel
rattle over berms, wheel
shake in collisions, etc. I think if it was easy for Papyrus to do
"realistic" steering Froce Feedback
they would have done it.

John

Ok, now which sims/games has done this good, and yes I'm a GPL fan and
yes I really want to know, I tried Viper Racing with a FF wheel and
wasn't impressed, but I'm open for suggestions :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

Well, if you didn't like the FF in VR, then you're out of luck, as it
currently is the only sim with really usefull and immersive effects...

l8er
ronny

--
A healthy "*** you" to Eidos for voluntary and unlawfull
censorship of *** German video gamers! (Daikatana)

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

I found Viper racing FF very very good. It convinced me that Papyrus
really *should* be doing FF. Now maybe for the small number of
superstar hotlappers it would mean nothing, it would slow them down.
But for the other 95% of us mortals I think it would really increase
our ability to drive the car, just like it does in Viper.

Joe

Hm, odd, I really couldn't get much from the FF in VR, but since you're
not the only one, I guess I need to go back and look some more, could it
be that the Thrustmaster Force GT that I tried just isn't any good ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

Ok, I'll have another go then, maybe that TM Force GT needs some tuning

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

i don't know. My Logitech FF isn't the *strongest* wheel, but it's
effects are very accurate. Most helpful is the way the wheel pulls to
the side based on how hard you are turning, and goes loose/tight when
your wheels lose/catch grip. The wheel also goes light as you crest
hills, which is neat. It's definitely improved my Viper driving.

What shocks me about the whole FF thing is how hopelessly crappy most
FF support is in games that claim to have it. Even new games like SCGT
have only the most minimalist possible support - rumble strips and
collisions. Developers, if that's all your going to do don't even
bother. At LEAST give my variable sideways pull on turning and loose
steering on skidding. That doesn't seem so ***y hard, and is the
absolute minimum implement ion needed for FF to be at all useful.

Joe

Tried it some more, like it a bit more :-)

There are as you say some neat touches in there, guess what turned me
off initially is the "notchy" action of the TM wheel when I'm used to
the very smooth action of my regular wheel (homebuilt TSW(ish) replica),
do all FF wheels have this, I mean I can actually feel that there are
electrical motors/servos working mechanically in there (hope you guys
know what I mean) and not a smooth continious action

--

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/