rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:44:28

writes:

I disagreed with a similar rule in MoG. I feel that it puts faster guys in the
back, who now have to fight their way through the field to get to the front
where they think they *should* be. Possibly running everyone over in the
process. I also don't like fast guys who don't qualify on purpose. Yeah, they
usually do it to give someone else a chance, or for the challenge of carving
through the field. But us slow guys at the back still have to deal with their
charge towards the front.
Also, in NASCAR racing, the yellow flags really make starting position moot,
IMO. Hell, we could skip qual altogether, and the same guys would be near the
front at the checker...

Were there any less incidents when I posted a DM message stating pace speed,
pit speed, exhorted everyone to just have fun? Were there any less when John
berated people that they'd better practice because the track or setup was
wicked, or pit entry was difficult?

Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **grub** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:37:15

Interesting. This group here is averaging around 20 - 30 years since high
school. You marketing people should take notice. Im sure you can make some
money knowing this.

grub

by **grub** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:52:27

If you want a professional opinion, I will offer one up free of charge. Any
process change, will induce variation that may or maynot be expected.
Conpound that with many process changes, and you could really induce
variation in the game that could be totally unpredictable. One way to
mitigate this is to praeto out the top changes being considering in order of
importance, inplement one change (or factor) and judge the inpact on the
race. Since OFAT (one factor at a time) is really not the preferred way of
problem solving, it is still commonly used in the racing industry. You may,
over time find out which factor is significant and then you can implement it
and then throw out the other factors (or proposed rules) so that you dont
make the racing experience more trouble than its worth. Nobody likes a bunch
of rules and they have a justifiable reason. Change for the sake of change
pisses everybody off and change with the hopes of inpacting the outcome
usually fall short without a true logical and practical scienctific
approach.
As I recall, last year about this time, when everyone was screaming
rules, and Eldred had to take a break, we managed to make it through it. We
are half way through the racing season, and we are all adjusting and
attempting to improving our driving and finishes. I would chaulk this whole
mess of events as common variation in the process, do absolutely nothing,
and see if the driving improves. My guess is that the racing improves
without any added process changes.
Do you have to stomach to wait and see? Stay tuned to next weeks episode
of : As the RASCAR Churns.

grub

> > "Brian Oster" wrote...
> > > > <snip>
> > > This is actually a pretty cool idea. Maybe 3 podium
> > > finishers and 3 top qualifiers... really mix things
> > > up.

> > No way... one of the major problems, IMO, is having faster drivers
forced to
> > come up through the field and trying to make gains when it's the easiest
and
> > most dangerous, i.e. on or shortly after restarts.

> The whole point is to make them do what they normally don't have to
> do - live in the back for a few laps, and give someone else a chance
> to win. In IGPS, we had a couple of times where the previous weeks
> winner started in the back and still won the race.

by **Mitch_** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:09:11

OK Dan you win you old bastage <g>. Eldred comes in a close 2nd :) Hell
I may not even make the podium.

> >e had our 20 yr reunion
> >saturday as a matter of fact.

> >Mitch

> Mitch you child.....My 30th is next month. Yeppers....teeth are in the
cleaners
> now :)
> Dan

--
Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc.
Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

by **Bamada** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:20:17

Hey I'll wear the crown proudly! Red Farmer won a feature at a local track here
last weekend at 70+ years young. Somebody take the keys if I start goin 35mph
in the preferred groove with my blinker on though :)
Dan

by **Colin Harri** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:41:20

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:19:59 +0200, "Ed Solheim"

> >This is a good idea. I *think* the FFRL practice something similare where
> >the 3 podium finishers of one race ain't allowed to qual for the next
event
> >they enter.

> This is actually a pretty cool idea. Maybe 3 podium finishers and 3
> top qualifiers... really mix things up.

Thanks Brian :-)
We do it to stop Greger from being on pole every damn week, and also it
gives the weaker guys (like me!) a chance to get a few lead laps.

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:00:15

hehe <g>

Achim

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:52:03

Hi Eldred,

there's of course a limit to what the victim can do, but in RASCAR as I
remember it, drivers in general respected their opponents, and accidents
usually happened because two guys made minor mistakes. One may have been the
active part, the other one the passive part, but the passive could also
often have helped avoid the accident, by recognising the danger in time, and
then _actively_trying_ to avoid the accident.

I've analysed lots of accidents in my leagues over the years, and in many
cases the 'victim' could have helped avoid the accident. Often 'victims'
only become victims because they don't pull back. Of course, when it gets as
extreme as you describe, it becomes difficult to avoid accidents. But I've
become pretty good at staying out of trouble meanwhile myself, even when I'm
plowing through the backmarkers, based on those theories, so they seem to
work to an extent.

Achim

...

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:49:55

> writes:

> >Try again John.. :-)

> >> Here's a version of the old igps rules, hastily massaged as an
> >> example of what I was talking about.

> I think he enjoyed that massage a bit too much...<g>

> Eldred

I think I should mention that I'm getting tired of trying. I was
willing to help admin this because the only issues we had was keeping
the roster up to date, and posting replays and results.

Ed's no-passing rules are not adequate. No passing before the
backstretch, no racing back to the yellow, and single-file restarts
are all bogus. Why don't we all just switch to a F1 sim and call it
a ***in' day?

I ran a similar ruleset to the massaged ones I posted in IGPS, and
everyone seemed to be okay with it. Sure, they might appear to be
over the top, but we certainly didn't have any of the freaky bullshit
that RASCAR has going on right now, and everyone seemed to be fairly
confident that I gave fair and impartial reviews of the few race
incidents we experienced. We only had one guy that was ejected from
the league because he just wouldn't follow the rules. If you ask ANY
of the guys that were in IGPS, I think you'll find that while I was a
bit of a fascist admin, to a man, they won't have any complaints
about the actual racing we did.

It's unfortunate, but it seems that people need their necks stepped
on in order to stay in line and play nice. If y'all aren't serious
about making it happen, let's stop batting the bullshit back and
forth and not do anything at all, because I'm getting tired of
discussing changes that nobody's serious about and that nobody can
agree on.

Hey, I have an idea! Everyone in RASCAR should put their left arm in
a sling and not use it at all, and race that way for a few weeks.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:22:17

Have you forgotten about Bruce..? :-)

Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:25:29

>> writes:

>> >Try again John.. :-)

>> >> Here's a version of the old igps rules, hastily massaged as an
>> >> example of what I was talking about.

>> I think he enjoyed that massage a bit too much...<g>

>> Eldred

>I think I should mention that I'm getting tired of trying. I was
>willing to help admin this because the only issues we had was keeping
>the roster up to date, and posting replays and results.

No, we were joking with you because your post didn't contain anything. In
other words, the rules you were trying to post never showed up...

Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **bluestringe** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:38:46

> OK Dan you win you old bastage <g>. Eldred comes in a close 2nd :) Hell
> I may not even make the podium.

> > >e had our 20 yr reunion
> > >saturday as a matter of fact.

> > >Mitch

> > Mitch you child.....My 30th is next month. Yeppers....teeth are in the
> cleaners
> > now :)
> > Dan
> --
> Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc.
> Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

I got all of you beat. 35th coming up next year.

bluestringer

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:38:12

Oh... :-} (sheepish grin)

Here's the link I omitted:

http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar2003

by **elrik** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:48:26

> > OK Dan you win you old bastage <g>. Eldred comes in a close 2nd :)
Hell
> > I may not even make the podium.

> > > >e had our 20 yr reunion
> > > >saturday as a matter of fact.

> > > >Mitch

> > > Mitch you child.....My 30th is next month. Yeppers....teeth are in the
> > cleaners
> > > now :)
> > > Dan
> > --
> > Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc.
> > Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

> I got all of you beat. 35th coming up next year.

> bluestringer

Well, since I'll never get near to even a podium finish in RASCAR I may as
well take out my frustration in this "competition".

40th this year.

Elrikk

I used to be thought of as young and foolish. Now, I'm just old and
stupid. ;o)

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:08:16

Does this mean you've left High School 40 years ago? I'm not entirely sure
what type of reunion you guys are talking about?

Achim

rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing

RASCAR: Quality of Racing