rec.autos.simulators

by **John Simmo** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>** Works Great - except for:
>1. It's a long distance number... I can't afford the phone bill I'm
>about to run up.
>2. Idiots. People who have no concept of a pace lap.
> ------- Please!!!! --------
>Learn to drive on your own PC first, then join the world.
>I tried 2 races and both started with crashes in the first 50 ft on the
>pace lap.

I got on last nite and raced in Atlanta and 'Dega. I got nailed by several
idiots who either a) don't know how to drive, or b) don't have the sense god
gave a brick. People who don't know how to drive will be a real problem.

I also couldn't seem to use my own car. I weas using a different car in both
races, and there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the sim's selection.
I also couldn't find anything about this in the docs.

I think that:

1) If someone nominates a race, they should be able to set a mininmum skill
level for joining. This will keep the***wads off the track.

2) There should be some mechanism which allows us to upload our cars to the
service so we can race with our own paintjobs and other drivers can see
them.

3) The "service" should have local access numbers (at least one for every
major metropolitan area). The long distance charges are enough to keep me
from calling more than once a month.

4) Papyrus should make a network version of the game which allows up to 8 (or
10) humans in a given race (like Descent). This would make it playable over
the internet as well. They obviously have the knowledge for doing this.

/=================================================\
| John Simmons (Redneck Techno-Biker) |

| http://www.racesimcentral.net/|
\=================================================/

by **Mike Lescaul** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> I also have a question. I read the guide.txt file that comes in HAWAII.EXE. It says
> something about averaging scores from the past 10 races that a driver competes in and then
> re-assesses the driver's rating. Does this mean that you have to run 10 races to get off of
> level 0. Or are drivers re-evaluated after every race and up to the last 10 races are used in
> the average?

Drivers are re-evaluated after each race. If you have less then 10 races, the non-run races
will be counted as zeros, and averaged as such.

Mike

by **Ed Marti** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> Ed,
> this maybe a little premature but are there any plans to add this
> WONDERFUL access thru PoP's in local cities or thru some type
> of game server?? I can see myself in divorce court with a LD
> phone bill! Hehe

> Thanks,
> Andy A
> Andy,

Our goal is to make sure that you do not end up in divorce court! :-) I
can't discuss specific plans at this point, but suffice to say that a
top priority to us is to drive the overall cost of mutliplayer as low as
possible. We are investigating a wide variety of alternatives to
accomplish this. However, during the open beta period, we are going to
be relying on the "617" access.

--
Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

by **Ed Marti** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> I second that. Phone bill is going to kill the average man. How about a future
> telenet or something! Or is this service going to provide a 1 800 number with
> a membership? I hope it wont cost much, if anything.
> Looks good so far.. Few problems with idiots and yellow flags. I was black
> flagged when it TOLD ME to pass car #2.. Kind of confusing. But a great
> experience. My hats off to you!
> J.F.
> Rub-N-is-Racing...........................J.F.,

Although I can't talk about specific plans, the goal is to drive the
cost of multiplayer as low as possible. However, during the open beta
stage, we will have to rely on the current "617" method.

As for telnet, we have very strict latency requirements for multiplayer
NASCAR, and in general, the internet is unreliable in that regard.
There are some providers doing some interesting things in terms of low
latency, but...

--
Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

by **Jim Warr** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Everyone is assigned a skill level from 0-15 and it goes up or down
>depending on how you race against everyone. The people who tend to
>smash through the field and wreck people will stay at the lower levels
>why the people who drive smart and don't cause wrecks will move on up.
>Not to mention not tick off everyone :) There's nothing worse than
>getting taken out of a race from a guy who can't hold a line!

>Well, that's all I've got to ramble about, for those of you who get
>online PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read a file called Nim's Tips. It's the
>online bible so to speak and if you follow the rules in it, you'll get
>along great with everyone, and hopefully we won't have to many people
>trying to run 2 wide throught the tri-oval at dega...don't try it it
>won't work. (Believe me, I know)

Very well put Brian ...

One of the most important things one has to learn when running against
other human competitors is that they will never drive like the AI do. The
skill level ranking system Brian spoke of is a must-read for everyone.
Understand how it works, and you'll understand why it works as it does.
While this is truely still just a game, there isn't any game I like to play
that when I am 3/4 of the way thru I get kicked out because of someone elses
ignorance. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE drive safe.

There are several series races setup online and the only way you are going
to make it into these series is by driving safe. You don't have to be
lightning fast ... you have to be safe. If you are safe, you will finish the
race in front of those who aren't and get points accredited to your skill
level. If you're not safe and start punting your way to the front, you will
be asessed <sp> 'incident' points and then regardless of where you finish
these incident points will deduct from your skill level. It's a 'gentlemans'
way of driving ... keep in mind this is NASCAR ... it's not the local 1/4
mile Saturday Night Thunder ... nor should it be a demo derby.

There are several good articles online to read and download about the
expected behavior online. Nim's Tips is one, there is also an article in the
issue of VVR up there that talks about how to drive and get along with
everyone.

I hope everyone has as good a time up there as I am. But the only way that
will happen is if we all feel comfortable in others abilities. Please drive
safe and try to finish the race before you try winning the thing.

thanks and hope to see you all online

Jim Warren
<jimwarren on MP>

by **RickGent** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Making a game networkable and making a game work on the Internet are two
different things. A high-speed, real-time action game WILL NOT WORK with
typical Internet latencies. I'm not talking about throughput. You can have
a T1 connection to the Internet and be able to up/download data at a
1MB/sec, but if the round trip packet time is anything over about 0.2
seconds, it just isn't going to work.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by **Ed Marti** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> So, it exists. And it works.

> This is going to change the way we do auto racing.

> Who knows how this will be implemented? Rick?
> Nah.
> There have been two sides to this..... One group waits in
> anticipation for "HAWAII", and the rest deny it's existence.

> Not a very good way to run a dog 'n pony show.

> So lets stop the song 'n dance and talk freely now, eh? How soon
> can we just connect using a TCP/IP address instead of
> the long distance phone number? It will take HOURS to get in
> a decent race or two.... It only makes sense to use an already
> existing internet access instead of phone bill city. :-)

> It's only beta...and they want testers. I'd be happy to give
> this beta a good test if I didn't have to do the long distance
> thing... (wait till my wife sees this phone bill. :-(

> Mike aka Dr2.... y'know, the one in the back stuck behind the wrecked
> cars at the start of the pace lap....

Yes, we can now talk freely about multiplayer NASCAR. However, there
are a lot of forces at play behind the scenes that forced us to keep it
a secret until now. Going forward, there are a lot of things that we
will have to keep under wraps as well.

As for TCP/IP, like I've said in other posts, a top priority for us is
to drive the cost of multiplayer NASCAR down as low as possible. Yes,
the internet would be a great way to do that cost-wise, but given our
latency requirements, the internet just isn't viable at this time. With
that said, there are a number of comapnies doing some promising things
with low latency games over the internet. All I can asy for now is that
we're on top of it, and we will do everything we can to make it as
inexpensive as possible.

--
Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

by **Tony Joh** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

The solution, of course, would be a Sierra-type online service with a
rate schedule. Of course, I wouldn't expect a nice low MONTHLY rate
(i.e. ISP style 19.95/unlimited type stuff) but to me that sounds like
the best way to integrate PoP, low latency, etc.

_________________________________________
Tony Johns
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.xmission.com/~iwcc/project.htm

by Jo » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Making a game networkable and making a game work on the Internet are two
>different things. A high-speed, real-time action game WILL NOT WORK with
>typical Internet latencies. I'm not talking about throughput. You can have
>a T1 connection to the Internet and be able to up/download data at a
>1MB/sec, but if the round trip packet time is anything over about 0.2
>seconds, it just isn't going to work.

Hi Rick,

How are you planning on pricing/rolling out this service once it's out
of Beta? I'm calling from Vancouver, Canada, which is tremendously
expensive (not something I can afford more than once or twice a month,
and even then only late at night).

What about a 1-800 number with a monthly or even hourly fee to cover
it? I think this would save a lot of money overall because
long-distance phone service is so much cheaper in the US than it is
here.

Joe

by Jo » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>As for TCP/IP, like I've said in other posts, a top priority for us is
>to drive the cost of multiplayer NASCAR down as low as possible. Yes,
>the internet would be a great way to do that cost-wise, but given our
>latency requirements, the internet just isn't viable at this time. With
>that said, there are a number of comapnies doing some promising things
>with low latency games over the internet. All I can asy for now is that
>we're on top of it, and we will do everything we can to make it as
>inexpensive as possible.

What about a 1-800 number that you charge access for? This is
generally cheaper than personal long-distance rates, and is much, much
cheaper than the LD rates in some areas (Canada, for example).

Joe

by **Neil Yeatma** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> > >> follow the links to the Papyrus area):

> > >> http://www.sierra.com/sierra/papy/home.htm

> Actually, if you go here, you don't see it.
> try this instead:

> IN Netscape, erase the last part and just open:
> http://www.sierra.com/sierra/papy

> You'll get a directory - and the HAWAII.EXE file is located there.
> Click once on it to download.

> ** Works Great - except for:
> 1. It's a long distance number... I can't afford the phone bill I'm
> about to run up.
> 2. Idiots. People who have no concept of a pace lap.
> ------- Please!!!! --------
> Learn to drive on your own PC first, then join the world.
> I tried 2 races and both started with crashes in the first 50 ft on the
> pace lap.

> (but it IS REAL)
> Mike

Does this Hawaii patch change the standalone game in any way? Any patches
in this thing? Do yellow flags work? Oops...sorry...NASCAR works, right?
Not much of a NASCAR player...more into ICR2.. :)

How many humans on at once?

--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..

Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

by **RickGent** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

You'd have to ask Ed. I really have no idea how the service will be rolled
out.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by **Ed Marti** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> >> For all those who have been asking "What's going on with The Papyrus Network" and "Well, it's

> >--
> >Ed Martin
> >Papyrus Design Group

> It worked great at 2:00 pm today and I got to run in a race. Now I get
> an "incorrect version number" message when I try to go to the Scheduler.
> Did a new version come out that fast???

Charlie,

Chances are, you have a memory problem (as in, you don't have enough
free). Try to free up memory & give it another whirl.

We have fixed this message in the next release. That will be out on
Tuesday 4/30. (It will auto download to those of you that already have
the client)
--
Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

by **Ujjal Bans** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: Well, I e***dly loaded Hawaii only to find that "eterm" wouldn't
: recognize my Com 4 setup (with IRQ 2). The dumb part is is that it won't
: let me (as far as I know) override it because I know it works.....

Yeah, I have my modem set up on Com 3 but the IRQ is at 5... I was really
disappointed to find out that hawaii didn't seem to recognize IRQ 5 :(
Should I go through my computer and redo my IRQ's or should I wait for a
patch?

Decisions.... decisions...

: Anyway, needless to say tonight my setup is gonna change to something that
: allows me on to find out what all the rave reviews are about. <G>

: Phil

--
\ /
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~~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |~~~~~~
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http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ujj/nascar/ |-O-----O--| |-O-----O--|
----------------------------

by **Ujjal Bans** » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: What about a 1-800 number that you charge access for? This is
: generally cheaper than personal long-distance rates, and is much, much
: cheaper than the LD rates in some areas (Canada, for example).

That would be nice... but what if this is a real big hit and the 1-800
number is always busy during the time that you want to play. I would hate
to pay $x.xx per month for a busy signal :(

What is the max dialing capacity anyway?

: Joe

Later
Ujj
--
\ /
______| |______________________ ______________________| |______
|||||||(*)=SKULLCRUSHER=========`> <'======================(*)|||||||
~~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |~~~~~~
/ _____________________ \
http://rio.atlantic.net/~ujj/ ____/--\___, ____/--\___,
http://rio.atlantic.net/~ujj/nascar/ |-O-----O--| |-O-----O--|
----------------------------

rec.autos.simulators

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

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Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!

Multiplayer NASCAR Racing -- It's here!!!