rec.autos.simulators

by **Scot** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to what
everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy it because
we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out there, do
you think this game will sell very well? Can you see Joe Consumer walking
into his local software store and buying a 1967 Formula Racing Sim? I
honestly can't.
I think that the game will definately sell better overseas then it will in
North America, but that can probably be expected seeing that it's a F1 sim.
How many average consumers are aware that this game contains the most
realistic physics in any racing sim ever? Of course, Sierra will state such
on the box, but I think that people are kinda numb to seeing "The best ever"
and "The most realistic such-and-such" on nearly every single game box.
Overall, I can't really see this game seeling much better then Soda Off-Road
Racing in *North America*. Possibly Euro sales will carry this game. What
does everyone think? Don't flame me or anything, I'm just trying to get
everyone else's view.

PS....I hope that this game IS a best seller. It DESERVES to be.

by **ymenar** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Actually, we all wish that GPL will perform well on the mass *** market.

But seriously, naw... I don't see how it will get sales. It's different from
per example an historical air simulation, as the mass air simulation
fan-base is enough to make a good selling out of it.

Let's see.. Check out North America. Sierra Sports are enough stupid to
KILL Grand Prix Legend by shipping Nascar Racing 1999 just 2weeks after it.
WOW, great marketing skill <g>. The redneck gets to the store, see GPL and
Nascar1999. Who do they choose ? heh pretty simple.

The North American market is really big, especially since there's about no
other racing titles out (I mean big titles) until X-mas.

European/Australian market. There's TOCA 2. Colin McRae Rallye. Ubisoft
MonacoGP. Just that last title will crush GPL. Not because it's better
but... The normal gamer gets to his store. He has 2titles he thinks
buying... the 1998 season's MonacoGP, or GPL.... pretty easy choice.

Well, that's what I think will arrive, but let's hope it's _NOT_ the case.
Another slap in the face for Papyrus, man that's bad (let's hope not).

It's also bad for the future of the company, but that's another thing...

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Johan Foedere** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

First of all, Notrh America IS overseas :-)

I definately think GPL will be a bestseller. I'm not a big F1 fan or
anything, I don't even have a single F1 sim right now. The first preview
of GPL I read was like 1/3 of a page in some magazine that cought my
attention. It didn't say very much about the sim, but enough te make me
search the web for some more info. Every bit I read about GPL made me
more enthousiastic, and when I tried the demo..... SOLD!!!!!! No one can
resist a good sim like this.

My point? If a non-F1-fan, like me, can be convinced in just a few days
that this is a MUST-HAVE sim, and that it started by just a few line
article. It must become a bestseller.

It just takes two steps:
1. Read about what papy tried to achieve with the sim.
2. Learn that they *DID* achieve this ( play the demo).
that's all there is to it.

// Johan

> I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to what
> everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy it because
> we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out there, do
> you think this game will sell very well? Can you see Joe Consumer walking
> into his local software store and buying a 1967 Formula Racing Sim? I
> honestly can't.
> I think that the game will definately sell better overseas then it will in
> North America, but that can probably be expected seeing that it's a F1 sim.
> How many average consumers are aware that this game contains the most
> realistic physics in any racing sim ever? Of course, Sierra will state such
> on the box, but I think that people are kinda numb to seeing "The best ever"
> and "The most realistic such-and-such" on nearly every single game box.
> Overall, I can't really see this game seeling much better then Soda Off-Road
> Racing in *North America*. Possibly Euro sales will carry this game. What
> does everyone think? Don't flame me or anything, I'm just trying to get
> everyone else's view.

> PS....I hope that this game IS a best seller. It DESERVES to be.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

If it simply sells 100,000 copies world-wide it has earned its keep and
then some.
Here in Oz the retail price will be pretty close to AUS$90-00.

> I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to what
> everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy it because
> we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out there, do
> you think this game will sell very well?

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------

by **Zonk** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

>Path:
>If it simply sells 100,000 copies world-wide it has earned its keep and
>then some.
>Here in Oz the retail price will be pretty close to AUS$90-00.

Bruce,

The exact break even point is probably a bit above that. It's all to easy to
forget that of your $90, Cendant will see only about 40% of it, less fixed
costs.

Z.

by **Remco Moe** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

> I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to what
>everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy it because
>we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out there, do
>you think this game will sell very well? Can you see Joe Consumer walking
>into his local software store and buying a 1967 Formula Racing Sim? I
>honestly can't.
>I think that the game will definately sell better overseas then it will in
>North America, but that can probably be expected seeing that it's a F1 sim.
> How many average consumers are aware that this game contains the most
>realistic physics in any racing sim ever? Of course, Sierra will state such
>on the box, but I think that people are kinda numb to seeing "The best ever"
>and "The most realistic such-and-such" on nearly every single game box.
>Overall, I can't really see this game seeling much better then Soda Off-Road
>Racing in *North America*. Possibly Euro sales will carry this game. What
>does everyone think? Don't flame me or anything, I'm just trying to get
>everyone else's view.

Once I had a race course, with Formula Fords. (Fun fun fun, but that's
another story) The instructor said: "We know that any of you believes
that he is the best driver around here". I think he was right.

If Joe Customer is told that GPL is so difficult that only "real"
drivers could master it, it could be a major selling point. Since GPL
seems to be so well ballanced, I'm not afraid. GPL will sell.

Yep.

Remco

by **Zonk** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

>>Path:
>>If it simply sells 100,000 copies world-wide it has earned its keep and
>>then some.
>>Here in Oz the retail price will be pretty close to AUS$90-00.

>Bruce,

>The exact break even point is probably a bit above that. It's all to easy to
>forget that of your $90, Cendant will see only about 40% of it, less fixed
>costs.

>Z.

I'll stand corrected- it will be much above that....

there day-one ship to Europe is 200,000 units, and marketing spend is
500,000.

Break even point? Hate to guess. 200k+, i would imagine.

Z.

by **Zonk** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

>>>Path:
>>>If it simply sells 100,000 copies world-wide it has earned its keep and
>>>then some.
>>>Here in Oz the retail price will be pretty close to AUS$90-00.

>>Bruce,

>>The exact break even point is probably a bit above that. It's all to easy to
>>forget that of your $90, Cendant will see only about 40% of it, less fixed
>>costs.

>>Z.

>I'll stand corrected- it will be much above that....

>there day-one ship to Europe is 200,000 units, and marketing spend is
>500,000.

>Break even point? Hate to guess. 200k+, i would imagine.

>Z.

Ohh, and FYI, 2 Oct ship, alongside Monaco GP, and it seems Colin McRae a week
later. Thats a really crowded time for a release, and so far, McRae has been
attracting the finest reviews in the Uk press.

Z.

by **Peter Gag** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

> I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to
what
> everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy
> it because
> we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out
> there, do
> you think this game will sell very well?

Yes I do think it will sell well, and I hope it does, as IMHO it
really is a turning point in driving sim history.

Nov 98 issue of PC Zone (UK) gave GPL a 2 page spread review and a
90% rating (which makes it a *classic* rated game).

Oct 98 issue of PC Gamer (UK) gave GPL a 4 page spread review and a
93% rating (which makes it the game of the month).

Both reviews point out that to get the best from GPL there is a
*steep* learning curve, and they both make the point that it is
classed as a die hard *sim*, rather than a game. This may put people
off?

However, very high ratings such as these will help sales IMO, as Joe
public *does* take notice of the mainstream *** mags.

Look at GP2 & F1RS, both classed as die hard sims by us, as well as
others, but both had good sales, I think GP2 was one of the biggest
sellers ever wasn't it?

I think GPL also has *novelty* value to the average gamer cos its
based on the 67 season, rather than an ultra modern sim/game (been
there, done that?)

We do not have long to wait anyway before we all find out....just get
out there and buy it!!!!

9-)

*Peter* 8-)
(NB: remove asterix to e-mail)

by **Ford Prefe** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Ahem. *You* are overseas sunshine! :o)

There are such things as magazine reviews. If they sell this not as a
game but as simulation they may get people who aren't into ***
buying this. Take flight sims. I know a number of people who are
interested in flying and would quite happily buy MSFS98 or even
X-Plane if they owned computers.

Yes. Euro sales will carry this game. After all Europe is where F1
started from. In fact I'm surprised you say *Possibly* Euro sales will
carry this through.

Can you imagine Papy trying to sell Nascar 3 in Europe?

by **Don Chapma** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

I completely agree, and that is the sad part of what I consider false
advertising on many game boxes and adverti***ts.
For example, Cart Precision Racing. I had some non-sim head friends who I
had turned onto Indycar 2, tell me that they picked up CPR after reading
some game magazine reviews and reading the specs on the box, and they were
asking me what the problem was and were they missing something. Fortunately
for them, they had purchased it from a store that would take it back, so I
told them "What you see, is what you get, even with the patch", so they took
it back. Unfortunately for me, I bought it when it came out and waited for
the patch to fix it and thus lost out on my time to return it for refund.
You win some you lose some. I have already had so much more enjoyment from
the GPL Watkins Glen and Monza demos than I ever did with CPR full version
with patch. I would be willing to pay Papyrus 4 times the regular price if
they deliver Indycar 3/CART 2/CART 2000 or whatever with the same quality. I
just wish they could get it to me quicker!

Don Chapman

by Jo » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

> I was just thinking about it tonight, and was curious as to what
>everyone else thought. Of course, most of us on this NG will buy it because
>we are the die-hards supposedly. But to the rest of the world out there, do
>you think this game will sell very well?

Yes, better than any pure sim to date - I've talked to several casual
gamers and even non-gamers and all are interested in this pogram.

Joe

by **John Walla** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Hmm, obviously PC Gamer being an exception...?

Cheers!
John

by **Phillip McNell** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

One thing I wonder is what happens when someone without existing
driving-sim skills tries these realistic titles. Folks with years of
sim driving expierience have difficuitly driving GPL, who have
expensive wheels and peddles setups and systems that provide good
frame rates.

When Joe Bloggs buys a copy to run on his P150 with an S3 card and
32mbs ram using a dinky joystick for input control what happens? Do
they just end up throwing it aside as a bad joke ? I supose it depends
on the individual but I can't help but feel there'll be a lot of very
frustrated would-be sim racers around. ( As opposed to very frustrated
supposed-to-be sim races like me ;-)

But then I also wounder how there's a market for hugely expensive
input control devices. I know us driving sim fans will buy anything if
we can afford it but we're fanatics. I'd have thought there wouldn't
be enough of us to keep the various high end control device makers in
business. But some at least have waitting lists. They can't make them
fast enough.

I tend to agree with you. The thing is what will they also see on the
shelf at the same time. There's lots ( and lots ) of racing titles ATM
- even though only three or four are worth noting. Many titles boost
on the box that they depict a near current season of the road sport
they represent. Also quite a few have some well known racing drivers'
name on the box. And without exception they ALL boost how they are the
latest greatest thing ever to happen to computer simulator
programming. Now we know how little this means but for the uninformed
buyer these sale points may be considered in their decision. Even
reviews in magazines are so full of rubbish you have to wonder about
how the writers come to say what they do.

I hope GPL sells well and sets new records for its area. I hope Papy
makes so much money they can go on to other titles with this kind of
technology at double pace.

Cheers

Phillip McNelley

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:00:00

I don't think it will sell at all here in the U.S. F1RS sold 400,000 copies
worldwide, yet I still couldn't find it in stores near where I live. I'm
outside of Philadelphia which is the 4th largest market in the country, so
just about everything is available in large quantities if there's a demand
for it. GPL is even more of a niche product since it's a historic sim. Sims
sell less than arcade games, and historic sim fans must be a really small
group. F1 isn't even popular in the U.S., especially since no races are run
here. There's a NASCAR race every five minutes (which I have 0 interest in).
I imagine Papyrus knows that GPL won't be a big seller.

Dave
DmndDave

>True.
>Make that 200,000 copies!
>In Oz alone it will probably sell to the tune of several thousand in
>initial and pre-Christmas sales.

>> The exact break even point is probably a bit above that. It's all to easy
to
>> forget that of your $90, Cendant will see only about 40% of it, less
fixed
>> costs.

>> Z.

>--
>Regards,
>Bruce.
>----------
>The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
>http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

rec.autos.simulators

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