rec.autos.simulators

After I was destroyed by being punted straight into a wall and killing my
engine at about 160mph, I watched these two work. Glancing blows to both the
front and back did little real damage. Watching them get broadsided by a car
at full steam just spun them around. When the car was too bad to drive, a
tow truck ride, repair and they were back out. To finish the carnage.

Realistic damage should be that - front and rear end damage making the car
almost if not at all immovable. Real engine damage by hard impacts ( cooling
system or the like? ), a car that roll and flipped 20 times not being able
to be driven away...

This seems to be the only way to halt it. I have had some great pick up
racing on Sierra, but it seems every race has a child in it. And it usually
starts on the warm-up lap, with a guy in back racing to the front and
knocking the pole sitter right out..

Just a thought...

********************************
Dave Pawlikowski

www.cushdrive.com
www.luftwaffe-experten.com
" Ah, the Luftwaffe.. the Washington
Generals of the History Channel.."
             Homer Simpson
********************************

Well have you ever seen a tow truck in nascar pull a car around the track
and into the pits and then it continue after a short pit stop.. maybe remove
the tow capability.

| After watching two drivers/wreckers decimate a 40 car field at Talladega
| last weekend, maybe this is a solution to that rapidly growing problem -
| make REAL realistic damage...
|
| After I was destroyed by being punted straight into a wall and killing my
| engine at about 160mph, I watched these two work. Glancing blows to both
the
| front and back did little real damage. Watching them get broadsided by a
car
| at full steam just spun them around. When the car was too bad to drive, a
| tow truck ride, repair and they were back out. To finish the carnage.
|
| Realistic damage should be that - front and rear end damage making the car
| almost if not at all immovable. Real engine damage by hard impacts
 cooling
| system or the like? ), a car that roll and flipped 20 times not being able
| to be driven away...
|
| This seems to be the only way to halt it. I have had some great pick up
| racing on Sierra, but it seems every race has a child in it. And it
usually
| starts on the warm-up lap, with a guy in back racing to the front and
| knocking the pole sitter right out..
|
| Just a thought...

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--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

The point remains people who want to run pickups should be able to do so
without all these kinds of problems due to an ARCADE implemented damage
model for online racing.  I know there are reasons for this, but it still
does not solve the problem.  You are lucky enough if you find a race outside
Daytona, Dega, Michigan, or C***te <VBG>, fortunate enough to own your
own server (since Papy refuses to give us a dedicated server model that
allows the users to freely create races - (if the server owner wishes to do
so) - without giving them full control of the server), or have access to a
league server.

Why shouldn't the 'average' Joe who wants to race in decent races without
the committment of leagues be forced to suffer?

All this is really getting away from the fact that the online damage model
is a disaster.   I thought it was suppose to be SIM racing?  =)

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

Depends on your outlook.

Ahhh, if only it were a perfect world.

Are you saying that the "realistic" damage model is different when
racing online versus racing offline?

It's tough to get more than 4 or 5 people in a race at Sears Point or
Watkins Glen (nobody wants to turn right), and racing at short tracks
equates to certain death because of the wreckers.  That's why all the
races online seem to be at the big ovals.  I'm eagerly looking forward
to true conversions of GPL road courses to the N4 format.  At least the
euro guys are willing to make a race of it without whining about the
direction they turn the wheel...

I'm working on DeMONS/2, Scott.  That will sort of allow what you want.
:-)

I personally think Papy could do more (if not hampered by Sierra) to
improve the online interface.  The first thing that should be done is to
separate the two pieces (sim and "Sierra/WON").  I would love to not
feel like I have to update DeMONS everytime a major revision to NR comes
along (I'd much rather race than write code).

Committment to a league or joining a club is required if you want decent
racing on a regular basis.  See my response above regarding "perfect
world".

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Yes.

I hear that.  I love Watkins too.

=)

But it doesn't HAVE to be this way.  Agreed that if you want 'serious'
racing.. join a league.  However, alot of these problems would be diminished
if the intentional wreckers know that most likely the damage is going to
take them out of the race.  Not run head on with a car coming at you at
160mph, flip, roll over, drive to pits, sit in pits for a minute, and return
to track and run near pre-crash lap times!   The more accurate damage model
won't prevent this, but it would help and possibly make pick-up racing more
of a possibility to those who would like to do so.  Heck, it might even help
make the rankings a bit more relevant as it would make the 'hacks' think
twice about just causing wrecks as they won't gain any skill and won't be
able to join any races above 2.   It's fairly easy to move up currently,
even if you are a wrecker.

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

Which should tell you something?

Actually I did as I resigned from the only league I was in still running
(All the others shut down as it was pretty hopeless attempting to run them
in this environment.)

Sort of like going to an F1 race and expecting a race instead of a parade?
=)

Not really.  Too bad for a company not getting my money again.  They'll
survive... just not with my purchasing support.
I'm an online sim racer... if there is no online racing environment, then
there is no need for me to purchase the product.

The wild card is that NASCAR racing is much different than other forms of
racing.

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

There is an online racing environment.  You base yourself simply on a single
league of yours that failed, yet almost every other now have started back
and it's going quite ok.  Could be better, but it's still nice.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Hell could be considered an "environment" too, but I doubt it's that
hospitable!

There were several leagues, not just one.

How is OSCAR doing?   =)

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

Absolutely, JS. We only had about 2/3 our normal turnout for our Sears Point
league races last week. I'd love some more road courses for the game, I
think they would bring more serious drivers to the table. I'd like more
short tracks again too, I loved the truck pack becaused we got the road
courses in Portland and Topeka (I think) and more shorties too, Gateway,
I-70, etc. I consider anything under 1.5 Miles (plus Michigan) "driver's"
tracks. I think the vast majority of guys in the pickup races are "players"
not "drivers".

Yes you are and I cant wait till we get the bugs squashed. I need to try the
latest one, was that ver .9? (I'm on your list, just been away for about a
week)

I saw this writing on the wall too and the last time a computer show came
through, I picked up enough hardware to build my own server and promptly hid
it in my IT closet outside the firewall and have been happy ever since, even
when I wreck. I miss being able to just "jump in" a race, but generally I
can startup the server, email my guys and bascially have an impromptu league
race of 5-10 guys most nights. When I wreck in these races, 99% of the time,
the wreck was of my doing. Not that I wreck a lot, my LPI (not that i care
really) is somewhere around 272.7. I havent been able to pad it in a while
since we went to IP connections though, lol. IF I raced in Sierra much I
suppose my LPI would look more like the ones I see most nights, 2.7, 10,
5.2, lol. I login some times just to look at profiles and chuckle.

Yes, it requires priorities and committment, I know, I started my own
"league", but it is the only way to get clean racing on a consistent basis.
For those of you not in a league and complaining about the time it would
take, imagine what it would be like to actually run flatout somewhere
without having to drive in your rear view 100% of the time.....or dodge
idiots at the S/F line turning donuts...then figure out whether or not it is
worth your time. If it isn't, then I am sorry. Papy/Sierra are not going to
dedicate the resources needed to just one title for just one facet of the
game. It has AI and plays offline too, you remember?

edb

Therefore you Amish understood that pickup racing is the worse way to race
N4, and it's dead since the NROS closed it's doors ;)

LOL!

Oscar fell under the weight of it's league (server cost, structure, driver
quality etc..)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...