rec.autos.simulators

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

Tom Pabs

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Tom Pabs » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 05:07:13

There's been a lot of talk about the "wreckers" and poor quality of online
racing in N4....lately.  In contrast to that, this has been my experience in
the last several months, racing online in N4:

********
    About the only online racing I have been able to do lately is some
pickup racing on N4....even as rare as that is (usually a couple hours a
month - max).  Usually, I've been testing some new BRD "pre-beta"
control.......and  I did a lot of online testing on the overhead pedal
system (reported by High Gear).  This means I've only been running the two
road courses.  And, since I'm testing equipment, I'm generally pretty slow
(I'm being kind to myself...sometimes I'm flat dangerous....lol....like when
I first tested the overhead pedals...it was like "scratching my head,
rubbing my belly" racing until I got the hang of the heel n' toe work
again).  Because of that, I've been looking for Papy servers running
"arcade" handling on either road course - as my "first choice" pick up race.

    There was a lot of these races at Sears around the time of the
real-world WC race here.  My "experience" running those races was that
they've been some of the best I've had in online racing......and that
includes going all the way back to the early days of TEN racing - and in the
WON Net N3 era.  Oh sure, some of these road races have had a little too
many rookie drivers in them.......but many have had fairly competent drivers
who can handle their cars (particularly because of the improved handling
from the Arcade setting) and know their way around the track fairly well!
I've not seen any "wreckers" in these races....that doesn't mean they are
not there on occasion....but I've not run into them.  If you go look at my
LPI on N4 (Pabst-PRTD), this verifies what I'm saying......99% of my online
races are 10-15 lap road course races.....and my LPI is 26.3.....that means
approximately two races for every "incident"....which is not bad for road
course racing (in my opinion).

********
I'm posting this for primarily one reason:

    On occasion, I run into some of the so-called "hot shoes" who turn their
nose up at running an arcade road race.  I think that's a big mistake.  Why?
Well, the arcade races I've run are a blast.  They are short races
anyway....and who cares about being a "set up guru" for a 9 lap race at
Watkins?  I don't.  In these races, everyone gets the same
"chance"....particularly in the "fixed setup races"......so it boils down to
being able to handle your car in and through traffic, and knowing the fast
racing line.  I generally try to start in the back of the grid.....and see
how far I can work my way up through the field in 10 to 15 laps.  Its
incredibly valuable "practice racing".......its just not "setup development"
racing.....but I'm not running any N4 leagues so I don't need to do that.
In a small few of these races, there's been several "hot shoe" drivers
(guess there was nothing else to run at the time?) and those have been
really some of the most competitive races I've run online....ever!

    I recall one race in particular....it had like 18 total drivers (on a
Papy server) at Sears - Arcade handling.  There were like 12 drivers who
qualified north of 93 mph....the pole was had by George Sandman at around 96
mph (if I recall?).  The slowest qual time was a low 90's......(there were
actually like 28 or 30 original drivers in the practice session....but the
slow guys/rookies must have dropped out...or sat in the pits to
watch....when they saw the quality of the field when the qual times posted.
Besides George Sandman, SweetAl was in the race and so was Charlie
Buscher....these guys are top drivers in any race.  It seems to me this was
around a 20 lapper....but I don't recall exactly.  I do recall it was one of
the best online races I've ever been in.......and it boiled down to the
winner being the driver who could run consistent laps while picking their
way through the back markers after a few laps.  Doesn't that sound a lot
like what a real-world WC race is like at Sears?

    I'd also like to point out that the "Arcade" mode is really a misnomer!
There's nothing "arcade-like" about it.  Actually, the car handles pretty
much the way my "full simulation" car handles....or at least, the way I try
to create the setup to make the car handle.  Its certainly not a "***
mode" car physics experience!  I am totally amazed how many "hot shoes" I've
talked to that have never even tried the "arcade" mode.  In a road
race.....its pretty much the same as a great handling, "full simulation"
car.

    I'm inviting some of you "hot shoes" to put your egos away for a race or
two, and jump into one of these races and try it out.  Sure, some of them
won't be very good....but a high percentage of them are great racing!  As
far as **pick up racing** on N4 is concerned....I think these arcade-mode
road races are the best there is!  If you see me online in N4.....that's the
kind of races I'll be looking for.....come in and join me......you just
might be totally, and pleasantly, surprised!  This is what I call "fun
racing"....and I do it for relaxation and pure "*** fun."

I never thought I'd hear myself say that......but...there it is!

********
This is a suggestion for Papyrus.....only a suggestion:

    How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to
loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and
Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in
Arcade "fixed setup" mode?  Why?  I assume you monitor the participation on
the Papyrus race servers?  If you find the participation during this trial
period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by
allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online
too?  A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for
obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially
pick up type racing.  I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality
of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of
the general N4 community of drivers.  It would be great to know.....at any
time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running
road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much
round the clock!  The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of
setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to
just jump in and drive!

    If this turns out to be a successful "trial"......based on the numbers
of participants.....maybe it would be possible to add a second dedicated
server (road races only) with standard, full-simulation setup too?  It seems
to me there are enough Papyrus servers that this would be a reasonable trial
run to test out?

    I don't know....this is only a suggestion.  But, I do know you'd see me
online in N4 a lot more often.....and I don't think I'd be the only one who
would participate in online N4 racing......a lot more.

Regards,

Tom Pabst

Eldre

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Eldre » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:41:21



>    How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to
>loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and
>Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in
>Arcade "fixed setup" mode?  Why?  I assume you monitor the participation on
>the Papyrus race servers?  If you find the participation during this trial
>period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by
>allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online
>too?  A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for
>obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially
>pick up type racing.  I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality
>of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of
>the general N4 community of drivers.  It would be great to know.....at any
>time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running
>road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much
>round the clock!  The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of
>setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to
>just jump in and drive!

You think road courses will really be that popular?  Well, if I ever figure out
my unattended server setup, I may try it.  Colin Harris sent me a config info
file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ed Solhei

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Ed Solhei » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:58:40

Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evident at
the road courses...  Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval races on
the Papy servers and you'll see.

--
ed_

Tom Pabst wrote a long post:

<SNIPPED!>

Uncle Feste

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Uncle Feste » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:55:14


> Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evident at
> the road courses...  Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval races on
> the Papy servers and you'll see.

Ed's right.  Try a Bristol race & get back with us...

--

Fester

Thom j

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Thom j » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:42:25

Eldred I like all RCs but in N4 tossing these huge tanks around is tuff!
Of course if you get these Clunkers' going in RCs for awhile, I found
that when I go back to one of my 'F1' sims or GPL it seems like they
are a breeze compared to WC cars.. phew they're tuff to get thru the
turns..hahaha jmho -Thom_j.

| You think road courses will really be that popular?  Well, if I ever
figure out
| my unattended server setup, I may try it.  Colin Harris sent me a config
info
| file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going.
|
| Eldred

| >    How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to
| >loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and
| >Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses")
in
| >Arcade "fixed setup" mode?  Why?  I assume you monitor the participation
on
| >the Papyrus race servers?  If you find the participation during this
trial
| >period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by
| >allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing
online
| >too?  A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses
only......for
| >obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing,
especially
| >pick up type racing.  I don't think there'd be any argument that the
quality
| >of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality
of
| >the general N4 community of drivers.  It would be great to know.....at
any
| >time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running
| >road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much
| >round the clock!  The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of
| >setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to
| >just jump in and drive!
|

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Thom j

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Thom j » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:44:39

Yea Ed, Those wreckers dont know how to turn right & left..Thank God.. :)

| Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evident
at
| the road courses...  Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval races
on
| the Papy servers and you'll see.
|
| --
| ed_

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Haqsa

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Haqsa » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:04:54

Hey Starsky,

Isn't it true that the N4 arcade mode is actually the exact same physics
model as the sim mode, but with slightly better than real car properties
(traction primarily) and a symmetrical setup?  I think I read that
somewhere.  So running in arcade mode really shouldn't be that
bothersome to the purists.  It's just like taking a sim and editing the
vehicles properties to make them go faster, something I've heard of a
lot of people doing.  Just my opinion.  The only way I can get my
non-racer lan buddies to play N4 is in arcade mode anyway, so I tend to
agree with you.

Regards,
Hal

"Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message

news:Rfgd7.53326$Kd7.30777755@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> There's been a lot of talk about the "wreckers" and poor quality of
online
> racing in N4....lately.  In contrast to that, this has been my
experience in
> the last several months, racing online in N4:

> ********
>     About the only online racing I have been able to do lately is some
> pickup racing on N4....even as rare as that is (usually a couple hours
a
> month - max).  Usually, I've been testing some new BRD "pre-beta"
> control.......and  I did a lot of online testing on the overhead pedal
> system (reported by High Gear).  This means I've only been running the
two
> road courses.  And, since I'm testing equipment, I'm generally pretty
slow
> (I'm being kind to myself...sometimes I'm flat

dangerous....lol....like when

- Show quoted text -

> I first tested the overhead pedals...it was like "scratching my head,
> rubbing my belly" racing until I got the hang of the heel n' toe work
> again).  Because of that, I've been looking for Papy servers running
> "arcade" handling on either road course - as my "first choice" pick up
race.

>     There was a lot of these races at Sears around the time of the
> real-world WC race here.  My "experience" running those races was that
> they've been some of the best I've had in online racing......and that
> includes going all the way back to the early days of TEN racing - and
in the
> WON Net N3 era.  Oh sure, some of these road races have had a little
too
> many rookie drivers in them.......but many have had fairly competent
drivers
> who can handle their cars (particularly because of the improved
handling
> from the Arcade setting) and know their way around the track fairly
well!
> I've not seen any "wreckers" in these races....that doesn't mean they
are
> not there on occasion....but I've not run into them.  If you go look
at my
> LPI on N4 (Pabst-PRTD), this verifies what I'm saying......99% of my
online
> races are 10-15 lap road course races.....and my LPI is 26.3.....that
means
> approximately two races for every "incident"....which is not bad for
road
> course racing (in my opinion).

> ********
> I'm posting this for primarily one reason:

>     On occasion, I run into some of the so-called "hot shoes" who turn
their
> nose up at running an arcade road race.  I think that's a big mistake.
Why?
> Well, the arcade races I've run are a blast.  They are short races
> anyway....and who cares about being a "set up guru" for a 9 lap race
at
> Watkins?  I don't.  In these races, everyone gets the same
> "chance"....particularly in the "fixed setup races"......so it boils
down to
> being able to handle your car in and through traffic, and knowing the
fast
> racing line.  I generally try to start in the back of the grid.....and
see
> how far I can work my way up through the field in 10 to 15 laps.  Its
> incredibly valuable "practice racing".......its just not "setup
development"
> racing.....but I'm not running any N4 leagues so I don't need to do
that.
> In a small few of these races, there's been several "hot shoe" drivers
> (guess there was nothing else to run at the time?) and those have been
> really some of the most competitive races I've run online....ever!

>     I recall one race in particular....it had like 18 total drivers
(on a
> Papy server) at Sears - Arcade handling.  There were like 12 drivers
who
> qualified north of 93 mph....the pole was had by George Sandman at
around 96
> mph (if I recall?).  The slowest qual time was a low 90's......(there
were
> actually like 28 or 30 original drivers in the practice session....but
the
> slow guys/rookies must have dropped out...or sat in the pits to
> watch....when they saw the quality of the field when the qual times
posted.
> Besides George Sandman, SweetAl was in the race and so was Charlie
> Buscher....these guys are top drivers in any race.  It seems to me
this was
> around a 20 lapper....but I don't recall exactly.  I do recall it was
one of
> the best online races I've ever been in.......and it boiled down to
the
> winner being the driver who could run consistent laps while picking
their
> way through the back markers after a few laps.  Doesn't that sound a
lot
> like what a real-world WC race is like at Sears?

>     I'd also like to point out that the "Arcade" mode is really a
misnomer!
> There's nothing "arcade-like" about it.  Actually, the car handles
pretty
> much the way my "full simulation" car handles....or at least, the way
I try
> to create the setup to make the car handle.  Its certainly not a
"gaming
> mode" car physics experience!  I am totally amazed how many "hot
shoes" I've
> talked to that have never even tried the "arcade" mode.  In a road
> race.....its pretty much the same as a great handling, "full
simulation"
> car.

>     I'm inviting some of you "hot shoes" to put your egos away for a
race or
> two, and jump into one of these races and try it out.  Sure, some of
them
> won't be very good....but a high percentage of them are great racing!
As
> far as **pick up racing** on N4 is concerned....I think these
arcade-mode
> road races are the best there is!  If you see me online in
N4.....that's the
> kind of races I'll be looking for.....come in and join me......you
just
> might be totally, and pleasantly, surprised!  This is what I call "fun
> racing"....and I do it for relaxation and pure "gaming fun."

> I never thought I'd hear myself say that......but...there it is!

> ********
> This is a suggestion for Papyrus.....only a suggestion:

>     How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers
to
> loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono
and
> Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road
courses") in
> Arcade "fixed setup" mode?  Why?  I assume you monitor the
participation on
> the Papyrus race servers?  If you find the participation during this
trial
> period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by
> allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing
online
> too?  A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses
only......for
> obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing,
especially
> pick up type racing.  I don't think there'd be any argument that the
quality
> of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the
quality of
> the general N4 community of drivers.  It would be great to know.....at
any
> time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race
server....running
> road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty
much
> round the clock!  The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue
of
> setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier
to
> just jump in and drive!

>     If this turns out to be a successful "trial"......based on the
numbers
> of participants.....maybe it would be possible to add a second
dedicated
> server (road races only) with standard, full-simulation setup too?  It
seems
> to me there are enough Papyrus servers that this would be a reasonable
trial
> run to test out?

>     I don't know....this is only a suggestion.  But, I do know you'd
see me
> online in N4 a lot more often.....and I don't think I'd be the only
one who
> would participate in online N4 racing......a lot more.

> Regards,

> Tom Pabst

Thom j

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Thom j » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:13:50

"Hey Starsky" hahaha too much Haqsau!! This is a winner!! rolflmao :)

| Hey Starsky,
<snipped all the important stuff :)..>

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Charlie Busche

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Charlie Busche » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:10:46

  When whatever tracks can be converted to N4 are, RC's in N4 will become
much much more popular. From the video I've seen of N4 at Monaco the
graphics etc. look great. How much are those pedals you've been testing Tom?

Charlie Buscher
Proud member of:
http://www.sscaracing.com <-- SSCA

http://www.enteract.com/~dirkc/hgns/ <-- HGNS
and HGNS_GPL


> "Hey Starsky" hahaha too much Haqsau!! This is a winner!! rolflmao :)


> | Hey Starsky,
> <snipped all the important stuff :)..>

> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Eldre

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Eldre » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:06:03



>Eldred I like all RCs but in N4 tossing these huge tanks around is tuff!
>Of course if you get these Clunkers' going in RCs for awhile, I found
>that when I go back to one of my 'F1' sims or GPL it seems like they
>are a breeze compared to WC cars.. phew they're tuff to get thru the
>turns..hahaha jmho -Thom_j.

When I got Nascar Heat, I tried Watkins Glen and Sears Point.  The car would
NOT turn.  It didn't really matter how fast I was going - I could be going only
10 mph.  Understeer right off the track(or into the wall).  I didn't have such
problems with the oval tracks, so I don't think it was controller issues.
Haven't been back since...and I haven't tried road courses in N4 yet.<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John Simmon

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by John Simmon » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:42:27





> >    How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to
> >loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and
> >Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in
> >Arcade "fixed setup" mode?  Why?  I assume you monitor the participation on
> >the Papyrus race servers?  If you find the participation during this trial
> >period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by
> >allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online
> >too?  A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for
> >obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially
> >pick up type racing.  I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality
> >of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of
> >the general N4 community of drivers.  It would be great to know.....at any
> >time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running
> >road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much
> >round the clock!  The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of
> >setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to
> >just jump in and drive!

> You think road courses will really be that popular?  Well, if I ever figure out
> my unattended server setup, I may try it.  Colin Harris sent me a config info
> file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going.

Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server.

  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server.

I wish we had more road courses in N4.  I'm getting damn tired of Seras
Point and Watkins Glen.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Eldre

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Eldre » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:29:04



>Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server.

>  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

>It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server.

I'd forgotten all about that...thanks!  When you set up a dedicated server, do
you need the CD?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John Simmon

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by John Simmon » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:27:34





> >Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server.

> >  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

> >It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server.

> I'd forgotten all about that...thanks!  When you set up a dedicated server, do
> you need the CD?

> Eldred

To actually run the server, no.  But DeMONS requires that you install N4
from the CD.  If DeMONS doesn't find the appropriate registry entries,
it will tell you that you didn't properly install N4.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Eldre

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Eldre » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:57:18



>> I'd forgotten all about that...thanks!  When you set up a dedicated server,
>do
>> you need the CD?

>> Eldred

>To actually run the server, no.  But DeMONS requires that you install N4
>from the CD.  If DeMONS doesn't find the appropriate registry entries,
>it will tell you that you didn't properly install N4.

Ok - I installed it from the CD last week, so I should be all set.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Tom Pabs

Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:19:02

Ed....

I think that was the point I was trying to make?  At least part of it.....

Tom


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