rec.autos.simulators

I think you are right about N4 becoming a little more "popular" if some
additional road courses are some how "hacked into" the deal.  But frankly,
with Papy's EULA, their licensing "issues" with NASCAR and company......and
the fact that they encrypted the mip files.....I doubt they are going to be
as lenient with this sort of thing as they were with GPL.  At least, that's
what I can glean from my discussions with the HAVAS attorney's over this
type of stuff in N4.

I know more road courses in N4 would tend to bring some of the GPL community
into N4 online racing.  That's why I asked about dedicating a Papyrus server
to running only road courses.  I threw in Pocono and Phoenix because they
are very close to being like racing on road courses too.  I think its not so
much that the oval tracks are not fun.....its just that they are not "as
fun" for short, pick-up type racing.  On the oval tracks......the real
racing is more about tire management, fuel management, pitting strategy and
the "chess game" that's associated with those things....and less about
"driving skills."  Those "elements" are not in play......for a short pick-up
race on an oval track.  I think its safe to say, its just the opposite on
road courses....at least for short length races.  Wouldn't you agree?

Regarding the overhead pedals.  Charlie...the beta setup we built set us
back about $450....just for materials.  It was about $4,500 in labor!  The
Ball Racing "production version" is targeted for a retail price around $200
to $250.  There's no guarantee that it will hit that target....but I think
its got a decent chance of doing so.  If you are interested in building a
set of overhead pedals for yourself.....and you've got a decent workshop and
the desire/skills to fool around with this....let me know.  Send me an email
and I'll give you a hand with getting you started.....send you some rough
drawings and so forth.

Tom

I wouldn't say the traction is "better than real car physics"....because the
Arcade mode car (out of the box) handles about like my "full simulation"
race car.  Its just that it took a few hundred thousand laps to get my
full-sim car to handle that way....and a lot of help from George Sandman, I
might add.  As far as the symmetry of the Arcade set up......that's not
really relevant.  In general, you'd set up a road course car with
symmetrical settings....then "tweak it" from there.  You usually don't end
up with a symmetrical set up.  Certainly NOT at Sears Point you don't!

The Arcade mode in N4 isn't a piece of cake to drive.....not on the road
courses at least.  If I recall, the N4 beta team was even trying to get
Papyrus to not call it "Arcade" because it isn't indicative of what it
really is.  But, I can understand Papyrus being unwilling to use a different
term....since that's a pretty universally understood term in the ***
world.....which was their primary market.

Tom

PS:  Word is......that Empire has dropped the Starkey and Hutch idea!

--
ed_

I checked, and found this in the N4 manual, pg. 23: "Arcade [mode] gives
you a car that's easier to drive, with more traction and maneuverability
than real race cars have."

I think this is literally just better tires and a default setup that is
made to be easy to drive.  Because if you start playing with the car,
all the correct physics still seem to be there.

In some ways I think that reinforces my point.  The physics are still
correct, they just give you a better than real car.  Anyway at the heart
of it I am agreeing with you (I think) in that arcade mode with fixed
setups is a really good mode for on-line play.  The only thing I'm
trying to say is that I don't think hard-core simmers should turn their
nose up at it, the correct physics are still there.

For some reason I was thinking that the default arcade setup is
symmetrical at all the tracks, but I just checked and they aren't.
Nevertheless if you drive the arcade and sim modes back to back, the
arcade mode does not pull as hard to the left as the sim mode does.

Ok, but you're still Starsky to me.  Actually just "Starsk" because IIRC
Hutch was just way too cool to add the final "y".  ;o)

I wonder if the "manual writers" actually checked with the "code writers" to
make sure that statement in the manual was truly correct?  In the long run
though, we are pretty much in agreement that the Arcade mode is certainly
not something to be avoided....because its too easy.....like it was
something only "girls would do."  You know?

I don't drive the ovals in N4 much anymore....except the flat tracks.....so
I can't really comment about the stagger pull between the two modes.  I
trust your assessment of it though.

Regarding "Starsky verses Starsk".....if you are cool enough to let me call
you "Hacksaw" without getting too pissed off....(which you were).....then
you are cool enough to call me Starsk......or any thing you come up with
(except "***".....only because my ex-wife already has the trademark on
that name for me....lol...).

Take care,

Tom

Actually I was impressed that you called me Hacksaw, because most people
look at my handle and don't have a clue how to pronounce it.  At a
recent lan party one guy kept calling me "Husqvarna."  My nickname
really is Hacksaw, I just messed up the spelling because it is not an
uncommon nickname and I knew there were other people using it on-line
already.

Nope, sorry, never even heard of him.

<sigh>  I may have to change it one of these days.  Some people react to
it like I'm trying to be 'leet or something, which is really not the
case.  Although I will admit that I stuck the 'Q' in there in order to
get the Quake symbol in my name back in the Quake Classic days.  Anyway
I've been using it since 1997, so I really don't feel like changing it.
But if people prefer to call me Hacksaw, I'll probably still answer.
;o)