N4 - wrecker solution?

by **Thom j** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:22:28

A interesting reply Haqsau but sadly these guyz hop in and out with
about 15-20 IDs & you never know if this one is or isnt a wrecker?
Once you have been ejected then no matter what nickname you use
you are still ejected but I am not sure how long this will last?
Not being a "net-guru" maybe someone can answer this... anyone?
Also for me, trying to type anything while in a race of 20++ is just
about impossible!! Plus if I didnt see the actual accident then I will
probably be hesitant to eject someone if it was an honest accident..
jimho...Thom_j.

| All it really takes is the ability for players to vote-kick a player who
| is causing problems. This solution has been employed by a number of
| other on-line games (mostly shooters) and it works reasonably well.
| Granted it might be difficult to work out an interface for voting that
| you can use while driving, but on the other hand if the player has just
| rammed you into the wall you should have plenty of time to type while
| you are waiting for that tow truck. ;o)

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by **Haqsa** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:55:06

Well it's true you wouldn't be able to prevent a wreck this way, but
once you see someone cause a wreck you could vote to eject them. One of
the wrecked drivers could initiate the vote, after all he's got some
time on his hands now, and then the other drivers would simply indicate
yes or no by pressing a key. Since you can't really join a race in
progress anyway (correct?) he would be out until the end of the race no
matter what he changed his nickname to. And if the software kicked him
by IP you could keep him out for the rest of the night, unless he hangs
up and dials back in with a different IP.

> A interesting reply Haqsau but sadly these guyz hop in and out with
> about 15-20 IDs & you never know if this one is or isnt a wrecker?
> Once you have been ejected then no matter what nickname you use
> you are still ejected but I am not sure how long this will last?
> Not being a "net-guru" maybe someone can answer this... anyone?
> Also for me, trying to type anything while in a race of 20++ is just
> about impossible!! Plus if I didnt see the actual accident then I will
> probably be hesitant to eject someone if it was an honest accident..
> jimho...Thom_j.

> | All it really takes is the ability for players to vote-kick a player
who
> | is causing problems. This solution has been employed by a number of
> | other on-line games (mostly shooters) and it works reasonably well.
> | Granted it might be difficult to work out an interface for voting
that
> | you can use while driving, but on the other hand if the player has
just
> | rammed you into the wall you should have plenty of time to type
while
> | you are waiting for that tow truck. ;o)

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by **Topi Paavol** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:08:29

Short version: I agree.

Long version:
<rant>

I've played online games, mainly FPSes and racing, for 5-6
years (when was Quake released, anyway?) and *every* game I've tried has
been infested by cheaters or other brain-dead morons. Currently I have
no problem with GPL; we have a good league and great guys to race with.
But in other games I mainly hop into some public server from time to
time to have a nice round or two, and all too often I bump into
teamkillers or annoying idiots. I don't play N4 (I find ovals boring),
but I can imagine myself in a similar situation. Leagues are not for
everyone.

I've lost all tolerance for the knuckle-dragging misfits, and I don't
want to roll over and play dead; it's only going to get worse. Unique
player accounts and kick-voting, as in Tribes2, is one possible solution
and indeed works quite nicely in my favourite servers - although it can
be abused as well.

I want to ban the repeating offenders from all servers for the rest of
their lifes. Combined with excessive ***. :/

</rant>

ObHappyHappyPositiveThought: Got 3:19.09 in Le Mans Sarthe with the
Eagle. Didn't save the replay. Duh. Me stupid.

- topi
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by **Olav K. Malm** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:26:54

> All it really takes is the ability for players to vote-kick a player who
> is causing problems. This solution has been employed by a number of
> other on-line games (mostly shooters) and it works reasonably well.
> Granted it might be difficult to work out an interface for voting that
> you can use while driving, but on the other hand if the player has just
> rammed you into the wall you should have plenty of time to type while
> you are waiting for that tow truck. ;o)

Another solution i found out yesterday is to start to race yellow flag
races. I had a 20 lap Y+ race at Michigan yesterday and there was no
wreckers present, everyone raced clean, but unfortunately some drivers
spun after 5 laps of racing all the time. It all went in my favour
however when the three leaders crashed into each other on a restart
two laps from finish, and I could cruise into my first N4 online win :)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:07:27

This was the great thing about TEN. Thir*** dollars a month made it a little
difficult for the morons to have multiple IDs. Now, I can go to Yahoo and
create 15-20 fake IDs in about an hour and use them to create IDs for racing.
This is the one thing that is going to be the death knell to online racing
until Papy and Sierra pull their heads out and help us figure out a way to
combat it.

And we don't need the BS answers I've read in other threads about doing my
time and getting known, thus getting invited to join PW'd races. I've been
racing online since the early days of TEN and I have NEVER been known as a
wrecker. I've never been denied admittance to a race because someone thought
I was a danger to them or anyone else in the race. I've drafted Dale Jr
to good finishes at Dega and have run wheel to wheel with Sweet Al and
Super Les and had a ball doing it. But, with this new world of N4 online
racing, nightly pickup races have become completely pointless and if this is
the effect that Papy and Sierra were after, they've done a hell of a job.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:19:06

And FM, where exactly is this clearinghouse of league information now? It use
to be that NROS maintained a great page full of leagues and you could pick and
choose according to days and times and league formats. Now, the only thing
you will find are leagues that are tied to sites like bhmotorsports or others
like it. They don't advertise any other leagues, they don't link to other
leagues and if their days and times don't jive with your free time, you are
SOL. Leagues are great if you happen to know someone that tells you about a
great league and invites you to join. What about the rest of us schmoes that
have lives to live outside this fantasy world on the internet and can't spend
hours searching and getting to know other racers (which by the way, can only
be done in those pointless pickup races)?

You are correct though, ever since Papy and Sierra killed TEN it is a complete
waste of time to run pickup races. Which is quite a shame because the late
night races I use to frequent were some of the best races you could find. Ten
to twenty guys going from one track to the next for a couple of hours just
racing our asses off until we all realized we had to get up for work in about
four hours.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:26:26

SAY HALLELUJAH BROTHER!!! ;o)

Exactly what I've been trying to say. Pick up races used to be great and very
satisfying. Good for a quick fix with thirty minutes to kill before dinner or
for a couple of hours late in the evening after a late night at work. Now,
forget it.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:37:29

What he is saying is that it shouldn't have to be that way. It used to be
that a good racing experience could be had on TEN at pretty much anytime.
Yes, there were the few wreckers but, when they actually had to pay a little
extra money out of their pockets, there seemed to be quite a lot less of them
and they were easily handled with muzzles to keep them out of certain races.

Now, in Papy and Sierra's infinite wisdom, muzzles are unnecessary because
"everyone" is basically good at heart and we need to reach out to this wayward
souls and educate them as to the proper etiquette when on a race track. I'd
like to reach out to them alright. And I guarantee you I am not alone in
this way of thinking.

I shouldn't have to join a league to be able to race and enjoy myself and
anyone who thinks that way is a complete idiot. And again, I guarantee you I
am not alone in this way of thinking.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:49:55

God you are aggravating Fran?ois. Almost as much as the wreckers themselves.
What you are saying is that there are two worlds of online N4 racing.

1. Race in leagues, with their tight unforgiving schedules.

or

2. Race demolition derby.

There are no other choices.

You have been around the online racing world longer than I have and you have
seen the days when a pickup race could be had and be a very enjoyable
experience. Now, you're saying that those days are past and it is IMPOSSIBLE
to get back to them. I think that's BS and I don't mind telling you that. To
think that the game itself will improve with each version but, that the
gameplay itself will deteriorate to the point of uselessness is the biggest
load of horseshit I've ever heard. I would have thought more of you than to
hear you say that this is the state of N4 and it will never get better.

League racing is great if you can get into a great league. But what about the
times I just want to fire up N4 for a few quick laps with other racers at
C***te, just for the hell of it? You're saying that I'm SOL and just have
to wait for the league race that week, hoping I don't get called into work on
short notice.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:59:58

Yes, except for one thing you seem to be forgetting here FM. Pickup racing is
not bad because of N4. It's bad because of the environment that Papy and
Sierra force us to race in, in which it is nearly impossible to lock the doors
and only let in those that we can trust to be true racers and not wreckers.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **John Simmon** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:15:45

You're the third person that doesn't seem to understand that I *know*
what he's trying to say. My point is that it just ain't gonna happen
because it's not a perfect world, and there is a certain online ***
element that will always try their best to ruin everyone else's fun.
Unfortunately, you HAVE to race in a league/club for guaranteed better
racing. I don't think we should have to pay for server access to get
decent racing.

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by **John Simmon** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:29:43

I'm working on a solution for this. DeMONS/2 is a N4 Server manager
that will eventually provide the same types of matching services as WON.
Registration will be required, and some of the more stringent
requirements will be:

1) You must provide a working email address for access

2) Free email domains like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc will be rejected

3) The central muzzle list will be controlled by email address

4) Only one user ID will be allowed for each email address

5) Periodic checks willbe mad to ensure that the user ID and email
still match.

I'm hoping that this will help reduce/eliminate the wreckers. Of
course, it will only work if the servers aren't registered on WON, but
hey, we've already established that WON is not the best environment
anyway, so I see that as no great loss.

The ejection from a server lasts until the server is taken down and
brought back up again. As long as it stays up cycling through races,
the ejection is in force. You can always add the offending User ID to
your muzzle list before bringing the server back up again.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
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by **Uncle Feste** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 21:45:30

> >haven't really tried pickup racing. Yes, the average joe will suffer if he
> >decided to do pickup racing. It's like somebody going to a demolition derby
> >event and whines about wanting to see some racing. There are alternatives,
> >if you can't race those alternatives, well sorry to say that it may be harsh
> >but too bad for you.

> God you are aggravating Fran?ois. Almost as much as the wreckers themselves.
> What you are saying is that there are two worlds of online N4 racing.

> 1. Race in leagues, with their tight unforgiving schedules.

> or

> 2. Race demolition derby.

> There are no other choices.

<snip>

Unfortunately, I think Frank may be right. Anymore, these titles are no
longer made with the *** simracer in mind. They are now catering
to the average gamer & anybody who looks around in any genre of online
multiplayer *** will tell you, there's a lot of idiots out there. I
think GPL may have been the final title produced with the ***
simracer in mind. >:-( This is what you get when companies cater to
the lowest common denominator.

--

Fester

by **Razorbac** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:17:10

I think the best solution is more realistic damage, driving with
yellows (no yellows is pointless... its not realistic and it is unfair
to someone who has been at the front the entire race and loses a bunch
of laps getting tires because some kid spins him) and a voting system
that allows the majority of racers to request that a specific
individual be booted from the race. Perhaps a single key will bring
up the menu, on the right side of the screen, a quick up and down
arrow action selects the racer and hitting ENTER selects your choice.
If over 70% of participants vote for the same person he is booted.

On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:33:12 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

>You always make that argument and as always.. you are WRONG ;)

>The point remains people who want to run pickups should be able to do so
>without all these kinds of problems due to an ARCADE implemented damage
>model for online racing. I know there are reasons for this, but it still
>does not solve the problem. You are lucky enough if you find a race outside
>Daytona, Dega, Michigan, or C***te <VBG>, fortunate enough to own your
>own server (since Papy refuses to give us a dedicated server model that
>allows the users to freely create races - (if the server owner wishes to do
>so) - without giving them full control of the server), or have access to a
>league server.

>Why shouldn't the 'average' Joe who wants to race in decent races without
>the committment of leagues be forced to suffer?

>All this is really getting away from the fact that the online damage model
>is a disaster. I thought it was suppose to be SIM racing? =)

by **Scott B. Huste** » Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:57:40

John,

You are right! We SHOULDN'T... but hey, it's "not a perfect world." ;)

> racing. I don't think we should have to pay for server access to get
> decent racing.

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
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