N4 - wrecker solution?

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:06:43

John,

DeMONS/2 sounds great, congrats on your efforts. Now... can you do
anything about the ARCADE Damage model while racing online? You know.. so
it doesn't seem like SEGA's Daytona at the quarter arcade? =)

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

> I'm working on a solution for this. DeMONS/2 is a N4 Server manager
> that will eventually provide the same types of matching services as WON.
> Registration will be required, and some of the more stringent
> requirements will be:

> 1) You must provide a working email address for access

> 2) Free email domains like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc will be rejected

> 3) The central muzzle list will be controlled by email address

> 4) Only one user ID will be allowed for each email address

> 5) Periodic checks willbe mad to ensure that the user ID and email
> still match.

> I'm hoping that this will help reduce/eliminate the wreckers. Of
> course, it will only work if the servers aren't registered on WON, but
> hey, we've already established that WON is not the best environment
> anyway, so I see that as no great loss.

> The ejection from a server lasts until the server is taken down and
> brought back up again. As long as it stays up cycling through races,
> the ejection is in force. You can always add the offending User ID to
> your muzzle list before bringing the server back up again.

> > A interesting reply Haqsau but sadly these guyz hop in and out with
> > about 15-20 IDs & you never know if this one is or isnt a wrecker?
> > Once you have been ejected then no matter what nickname you use
> > you are still ejected but I am not sure how long this will last?
> > Not being a "net-guru" maybe someone can answer this... anyone?

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **Eldre** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:39:47

writes:

Can you set the damage level independently of the race length? It would be
nice do have the damage without having to run a long race that people wouldn't
have time to run...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +20.90...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:05:05

I can't change the way the sim itself works. If setting both damage and
race mode to realistic doesn't make the race "realistic", there's
nothing any of us can do.

It's up to the server admins (and always has been, even as far back as
N3) to pick their preferred realism settings.

What you're claiming is that even though you set the race mode to
realistic, and the damage to realistic, the damage isn't what you
consider realistic, and that this is only true for online races? I find
that hard to believe without factual proof.

says...

> John,

> DeMONS/2 sounds great, congrats on your efforts. Now... can you do
> anything about the ARCADE Damage model while racing online? You know.. so
> it doesn't seem like SEGA's Daytona at the quarter arcade? =)

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ#4395450

> > I'm working on a solution for this. DeMONS/2 is a N4 Server manager
> > that will eventually provide the same types of matching services as WON.
> > Registration will be required, and some of the more stringent
> > requirements will be:

> > 1) You must provide a working email address for access

> > 2) Free email domains like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc will be rejected

> > 3) The central muzzle list will be controlled by email address

> > 4) Only one user ID will be allowed for each email address

> > 5) Periodic checks willbe mad to ensure that the user ID and email
> > still match.

> > I'm hoping that this will help reduce/eliminate the wreckers. Of
> > course, it will only work if the servers aren't registered on WON, but
> > hey, we've already established that WON is not the best environment
> > anyway, so I see that as no great loss.

> > The ejection from a server lasts until the server is taken down and
> > brought back up again. As long as it stays up cycling through races,
> > the ejection is in force. You can always add the offending User ID to
> > your muzzle list before bringing the server back up again.

> > > A interesting reply Haqsau but sadly these guyz hop in and out with
> > > about 15-20 IDs & you never know if this one is or isnt a wrecker?
> > > Once you have been ejected then no matter what nickname you use
> > > you are still ejected but I am not sure how long this will last?
> > > Not being a "net-guru" maybe someone can answer this... anyone?

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:16:50

> > I thought of a possible solution that Papyrus/Sierra would have to
> > implement.

> > They could set up a separate arena (call it "Atlantis") that only allows
> > you to enter if:

> > a) Your LPI is at least 50 (or higher?), AND

> How are you supposed to get a LPI over 50 when you constantly get
> wrecked in online races. I have a LPI of 25 with 20 incidents, and
> five of them are probably my own fault.

> What should have been done is to count the LPI during offline races too.

> > b) You have raced in at least 10 (or more?) races for
> > each track type.

> Offline should count too. 10 races at Bristol and still have a LPI
> under 50 ? Don't think so :)

Racing offline is completely different than racing online, and besides
that, cannot be tracked by the Sierra server. Further, it would be too
easy to hack the data file that holds the race info that would verify
your performance - bad idea, and Papy/Sierra would be very short-sighted
for implementing such a system.

The "ten races per track type" restriction would be in *addition* to an
LPI restriction. So, you have to have raced 40 races AND still have an
LPI of 50 or better in order to be able to join the restricted race
arena. Once you're there, your LPI would have to drop back to 30 or so
before you were no longer allowed in the restricted arena.

I was thinking some more about it, and I think that any race shorter
than 30% in length and with fewer than 10 *finishers* should not count
towards the "10 races per..." counter. Afterall, what we all really
want is to be fairly certain that any race we run in would be filled
with other people that can drive in a crowd for lap after lap without
worrying about them wrecking us. Right? Maybe 10 races per track type
might be a little heavy handed, and I'd even agree to a lover number.
The whole point is to restrict a driver's access to the restricted
("Pro"?) arena by demonstrated ability and experience, not his ability
to finish a 5% race ahead of as few as three other people.

I am fairly certain that my idea would be fairly easy to implement and
would satisfy the bulk of the clean drivers. I'm also sure that there
would be a number of server admins that would support this idea by
dedicating their servers to races that allow people to increase their
LPI AND their race count.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 02:04:51

John,

Go online with realistic damage. Now go hit something. Doesn't matter...
you will fly 35 feet in the air and tumble. Any kind of hit that would
basically remove a real car from the race. Now drive into the pits, spend
maybe a minute and a half for repairs, and return to the track and run
comparable lap times as prior to the accident.

Happens all the time in N4 in realistic damage mode. It's sorry. (Yes..
I'm referring to POST PATCH).

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

> I can't change the way the sim itself works. If setting both damage and
> race mode to realistic doesn't make the race "realistic", there's
> nothing any of us can do.

> It's up to the server admins (and always has been, even as far back as
> N3) to pick their preferred realism settings.

> What you're claiming is that even though you set the race mode to
> realistic, and the damage to realistic, the damage isn't what you
> consider realistic, and that this is only true for online races? I find
> that hard to believe without factual proof.

> says...
> > John,

> > DeMONS/2 sounds great, congrats on your efforts. Now... can you do
> > anything about the ARCADE Damage model while racing online? You know..
so
> > it doesn't seem like SEGA's Daytona at the quarter arcade? =)

> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > PA-Scott
> > ICQ#4395450

> > > I'm working on a solution for this. DeMONS/2 is a N4 Server manager
> > > that will eventually provide the same types of matching services as
WON.
> > > Registration will be required, and some of the more stringent
> > > requirements will be:

> > > 1) You must provide a working email address for access

> > > 2) Free email domains like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc will be rejected

> > > 3) The central muzzle list will be controlled by email address

> > > 4) Only one user ID will be allowed for each email address

> > > 5) Periodic checks willbe mad to ensure that the user ID and email
> > > still match.

> > > I'm hoping that this will help reduce/eliminate the wreckers. Of
> > > course, it will only work if the servers aren't registered on WON, but
> > > hey, we've already established that WON is not the best environment
> > > anyway, so I see that as no great loss.

> > > The ejection from a server lasts until the server is taken down and
> > > brought back up again. As long as it stays up cycling through races,
> > > the ejection is in force. You can always add the offending User ID to
> > > your muzzle list before bringing the server back up again.

thom_j2000

> > > > A interesting reply Haqsau but sadly these guyz hop in and out with
> > > > about 15-20 IDs & you never know if this one is or isnt a wrecker?
> > > > Once you have been ejected then no matter what nickname you use
> > > > you are still ejected but I am not sure how long this will last?
> > > > Not being a "net-guru" maybe someone can answer this... anyone?

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.paddedwall.org/john

> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 04:31:36

Has anyone from Papy confirmed it to be a problem?

says...

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john

DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2

Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 05:04:06

ROFLMAO!!!!

*gets up off floor*

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

by **Olav K. Malm** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 05:05:36

> > > I thought of a possible solution that Papyrus/Sierra would have to
> > > implement.

> > > They could set up a separate arena (call it "Atlantis") that only allows
> > > you to enter if:

> > > a) Your LPI is at least 50 (or higher?), AND

> > How are you supposed to get a LPI over 50 when you constantly get
> > wrecked in online races. I have a LPI of 25 with 20 incidents, and
> > five of them are probably my own fault.

> > What should have been done is to count the LPI during offline races too.

> > > b) You have raced in at least 10 (or more?) races for
> > > each track type.

> > Offline should count too. 10 races at Bristol and still have a LPI
> > under 50 ? Don't think so :)

> Racing offline is completely different than racing online, and besides
> that, cannot be tracked by the Sierra server. Further, it would be too
> easy to hack the data file that holds the race info that would verify
> your performance - bad idea, and Papy/Sierra would be very short-sighted
> for implementing such a system.

Didn't think about that. But in principle a offline LPI is good idea IMHO.

Again, in principle it's a good idea, but I just can't see how I as a
driver with intentions of driving clean but make a mistake from time
to time have even a remote possibility to reach such number.

Have you ever done a 30% pickup race with more than 10 finishers ?

Your idea is very good, but I have two issues with it:
Getting a LPI of 50 is very difficult, but by no means impossible.
Finding 30% races at all in the pickup-scene is very difficult,
specially one with many participants.

So maybe this would work best for a elitist-pro-division for people already in
leagues, where such numbers are possible ? Various GPL leagues comes
to mind...

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Luke Phillip** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 09:25:51

You need some sort of thing that when u crash, it gives u a bit of pain...
like in real life... Hook up 240v to the chair or steering wheel.

> Sounds like real NASCAR racing to me.

> The whole series would be a big snore if it weren't for the crashes
anyway.
> The cars are shit, the tracks are shit, the people who run NASCAR have
shit
> for brains, and the type of racing in general is pure shit.

> David G Fisher

> > After watching two drivers/wreckers decimate a 40 car field at Talladega
> > last weekend, maybe this is a solution to that rapidly growing problem -
> > make REAL realistic damage...

> > After I was destroyed by being punted straight into a wall and killing
my
> > engine at about 160mph, I watched these two work. Glancing blows to both
> the
> > front and back did little real damage. Watching them get broadsided by a
> car
> > at full steam just spun them around. When the car was too bad to drive,
a
> > tow truck ride, repair and they were back out. To finish the carnage.

> > Realistic damage should be that - front and rear end damage making the
car
> > almost if not at all immovable. Real engine damage by hard impacts (
> cooling
> > system or the like? ), a car that roll and flipped 20 times not being
able
> > to be driven away...

> > This seems to be the only way to halt it. I have had some great pick up
> > racing on Sierra, but it seems every race has a child in it. And it
> usually
> > starts on the warm-up lap, with a guy in back racing to the front and
> > knocking the pole sitter right out..

> > Just a thought...

> > ********************************
> > Dave Pawlikowski

> > www.cushdrive.com
> > www.luftwaffe-experten.com
> > " Ah, the Luftwaffe.. the Washington
> > Generals of the History Channel.."
> > Homer Simpson
> > ********************************

by **Dave Cas** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:26:05

I agree with your ideas to a certain extent but, with the problem of racing on
tracks with idiots who nothing better to do than to keep you from getting to
50 LPI this is going to be tough at best. Do you hang back and watch for the
morons and then try to avoid them? Do you hope you get the pole and pray to
God that you can outrun them and hope to miss them the next time around?

You ideas are a good start but picture this and see how you would feel.
You're sitting at 49.5 LPI and have 9 races in on the speedways and now you're
sitting on the pole at Dover. Just finish the race anywhere without an
incident and you're free to go to Atlantis. Now Billy Bob Moron has been
checking the stats too and sees that you are sitting in this position and
decides that he is going to have a little fun with you and takes you out on
the pace lap by charging from 30th position and knocking you into the
grandstands. Think this won't happen? I've got twenty dollars that says it
can and will happen.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:35:59

Not really all that difficult IF you are racing with others whose goals are
the same as yours; i.e. finishing the race with no incidents.

If this kind of plan were implemented then you would see a marked increase in
the number of these races.

I just have my doubts that it would work with all the idiots that think it's
their right to drive you into the wall and laugh about it. I guarantee you
that if you put me on any speedway or superspeedway and leave me the hell
alone, I'll finish decently and with no incidents. I think I have three races
in since the reset of stats and I have an LPI of 11.5. In all three races it
was a battle for survival from idiots parking in the middle of the track in
the turns to morons going from 20th to 4th before we even reached the S/F line
to take the green. My LPI could have been way over 50 without these guys.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:50:47

Oh no doubt. I have both Yahoo and Hotmail email addresses and I use them
anytime I go to website to get something and they ask me sign up and give them
my email address. If it's a site like a Cold Fusion resources site or else
that I am completely interested in, then they get my real address. If it's
just a one time shot and I don't care to get any other email from them or the
people they sell my name to, they get the freebie addresses.

Hold on a sec ....

I just went and checked my Yahoo mailbox. I have 296 unopened emails in the
regular box and 50 in the Bulk Mail box. At least 200 of them are from J
A N E T wanting me to buy all kinds of crap. I hope she goes freakin'
bankrupt sending email to guys like me. This is the first time I've looked at
the box in about a month. Guess it's time to clean it out before Yahoo starts
swinging an axe in my direction. ;o)

Oh, and to any bulk emailers that may be reading this, thinking that I have
wasted a lot of their money by not even reading their emails ....

THPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTT

When DeMONS2 comes out and raceserver starts using it, they will get my real
email addy with my pleasure.

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:52:59

Papy: Problem? What problem?

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Dave Cas** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:55:55

I like your way of thinking. I've always contended that NASCAR Racing 2, 3, 4
or whatever, will not be realistic enough until I can drive by a burning,
battered wreck and smell the smoke and hear the driver screaming in pain as he
burns to crisp. Here's to hoping for future innovations. ;o)

Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **Gregor Vebl** » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:51:38

As far as I remember, these are settings that can be set independently.
Just another grade up would do the trick, especially if one could render
the car useless in on session and couldn't repair it for another... :)

-Gregor

> Can you set the damage level independently of the race length? It would be
> nice do have the damage without having to run a long race that people wouldn't
> have time to run...

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> F1 hcp. +20.90...F2 +151.26...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.