rec.autos.simulators

by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 05:33:44

Why would I feel insecure about purchasing a 1.33Ghz Tbird? It's stable,
fast and cheap. What's not to like?

Allan

> 2001 07:41:27 GMT, as he held forth on "Re: Don't buy that P4 just
> yet! :)"

> >Exactly. Which is why an engine (or a cpu) should throttle back if it is
> >overheating! If the *car* is badly designed, with poor airflow over the
> >engine bay, then the engine will overheat. Is that the fault of the engine,
> >or the car manufacturer?

> Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand? I personally have
> nothing against the current AMD product line... but I gotta
> believe there are a lot of AMD purchasers out there who are
> feeling very insecure with their decision for one reason or
> another. This article, and the argument it spawned here, is
> nothing but straw grasping.

> Regards, JD

by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 05:46:42

Yea, even though I had a 300w PS when I went AMD, I checked the amp
ratings on the rail and it did not meet the specs so I bought a 350w
Enermax that does.

--
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by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 05:49:27

Which post is that? You quoted two people.
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by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 05:56:02

>> This article, and the argument it spawned here, is
>> nothing but straw grasping.

>> Regards, JD

Keep telling yourself that and you will actually believe it one day.
--
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by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 06:01:22

Dan,

This is the first system I did not build myself in almost 10 years. I
just didn't have time to build one this time due to a great decrease in
free time for various reasons. I actually bought my system from
Alienware after much research. The MB is a 1st Mainboard AD11 which is
based on the AMD 761 system controller for the Northbridge and the VIA
686B. I have 384 megs of DDR ram. I don't know the brand name of the
memory but I think it begins with an "A". Sorry but I have to look it up
in my docs. Anyway, I decided on AMD over intel this time simply due to
the fact that the AMD 1.33Ghz gives better performance for the $$$. The
P4 chip was almost twice as expensive as the AMD when I purchased my
system back in April. I have always used Intel chips up till now but I
was hard pressed to select a P4 considering the price and performance of
the T-bird.

Allan

> I'm considering the same upgrade. Allan, what MB and memory did you buy?

> Dan

> > Well, I just put together a new system and had to make that same
> > decision. I selected an AMD T-bird simply because it had more
> > performance for the price. The benchmarks I saw showed the 1.33Ghz
> > T-bird equal or better in many categories over a P4. But the final
> > factor was price. At the time of purchase, the AMD was almost half the
> > price of the P4. I have *always* gone with Intel up to this point.
> > However, the AMD just has more performance for the $$$. At some point
> > all of the P4's potential will be realised by software that takes
> > advantage of its features. However, until that point, I will have a
> > fast, economical and reliable chip in the form of the T-bird. I learned
> > a while back not to purchase computer hardware based on future
> > implementations. Buy something affordable that performs well on software
> > you utilize. I am sure someone will step in with all of the detailed
> > technical merits of each chip but that is why I purchased AMD over Intel
> > this time around.

> > Allan

> > > I do not get it. As I'm about to buy a new CPU I would like to hear the
> > > pros/cons of AMD/Intel.

> > > TIA,
> > > MadMan

> > > > >You are silly.

> > > > >The reason AMD ever 'got any' was because they sucked, for years, and
> > > years.

> > > > You're an idiot. Intel sucks now. Get it?
> > > > --
> > > > eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
> > > > http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 06:20:22

I'm also using the FIC-AD11 with Micron DDR ram. Very stable for me.

--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

by JD » Tue, 22 May 2001 07:43:17

15:33:44 -0500, as he held forth on "Re: Don't buy that P4 just
yet! :)"

Not talking about you specifically. It's just a general
observation based on some of the "defensive" responses I've seen
here.

Regards, JD

by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 08:01:15

I think AMD has come a long way. Like I said before it basically came
down to price vs. performance. In my opinion the T-bird just offers more
bang for the buck. I have nothing against Intel, it's just that the AMD
seemed more cost efficient. Oh well, that's why there is chocolate and
vanilla :-)

Allan

> 15:33:44 -0500, as he held forth on "Re: Don't buy that P4 just
> yet! :)"

> >Why would I feel insecure about purchasing a 1.33Ghz Tbird? It's stable,
> >fast and cheap. What's not to like?

> Not talking about you specifically. It's just a general
> observation based on some of the "defensive" responses I've seen
> here.

> Regards, JD

by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 08:07:09

> I'm also using the FIC-AD11 with Micron DDR ram. Very stable for me.

Yep, rock solid and I have put it throught the gauntlet. No complaints
here either.

Allan

by JD » Tue, 22 May 2001 08:06:18

-0400, as he held forth on "Re: Don't buy that P4 just yet! :)"

Such is the power of hope and repetition... a combination used to
good effect by the author of the article in question, as you so
aptly demonstrate.

Regards, JD

by JD » Tue, 22 May 2001 08:36:04

18:01:15 -0500, as he held forth on "Re: Don't buy that P4 just
yet! :)"

You might be surprised to know that I agree with you. If I were
buying/upgrading any of my personal machines right now, I'd
probably go with AMD.

I don't take exception to that choice, but to this P4 overheat
protection nonsense being tossed about in defense of that choice.
I find it ironic that some here feel the need to wield that web
article like Holy Scripture... as if to validate their own
opinions and decisions. It's just not necessary. I think the
current AMD products stand quite well on their own merits.

Regards, JD

by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 09:10:42

Personally, given the choice I would rather have a chip throttle back in
order to save itself rather than burn up. I don't overclock so maybe
that is what has some people fired up against the P4. I think the max
core temp for the P4 is lower than the T-Bird's but as long as it's
cooled correctly, the throttle back should never come into play whether
you overclock or not, at least as far as I can see.

Allan

> >I think AMD has come a long way. Like I said before it basically came
> >down to price vs. performance. In my opinion the T-bird just offers more
> >bang for the buck. I have nothing against Intel, it's just that the AMD
> >seemed more cost efficient. Oh well, that's why there is chocolate and
> >vanilla :-)

> You might be surprised to know that I agree with you. If I were
> buying/upgrading any of my personal machines right now, I'd
> probably go with AMD.

> I don't take exception to that choice, but to this P4 overheat
> protection nonsense being tossed about in defense of that choice.
> I find it ironic that some here feel the need to wield that web
> article like Holy Scripture... as if to validate their own
> opinions and decisions. It's just not necessary. I think the
> current AMD products stand quite well on their own merits.

by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 09:33:27

>Such is the power of hope and repetition... a combination used to
>good effect by the author of the article in question, as you so
>aptly demonstrate.

>Regards, JD

Yea, but the big diffference here is that I have both AMD and Intel
based computers here which gives my opinion a bit more validity and is
less imparsialist than yours.

--
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by **Jagg** » Tue, 22 May 2001 09:42:01

Well, that's the problem. It does come into play as shown by the
Quake3 test. I don't play Q3A, but I do overclcock and I just don't
see this throttling back as a good thing. If I paid for a P4 1.5ghz
then I would expect it to perform at 1.5ghz *all* the time. If it has
problems with heat running at spec then it shouldn't be sold as a
1.5ghz cpu.
--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

by **Allan Paren** » Tue, 22 May 2001 10:45:15

Ok, let me get this straight. It throttles back even when running at
spec and being cooled properly? I don't play Q3A either but why the hell
would it do that? Does it only happen in Q3A or has there been other
documented instances? I can see throttling back to save the chip but
during normal usage it shouldn't have to do that. I am missing
something?

Allan

> >Personally, given the choice I would rather have a chip throttle back in
> >order to save itself rather than burn up. I don't overclock so maybe
> >that is what has some people fired up against the P4. I think the max
> >core temp for the P4 is lower than the T-Bird's but as long as it's
> >cooled correctly, the throttle back should never come into play whether
> >you overclock or not, at least as far as I can see.

> >Allan

> Well, that's the problem. It does come into play as shown by the
> Quake3 test. I don't play Q3A, but I do overclcock and I just don't
> see this throttling back as a good thing. If I paid for a P4 1.5ghz
> then I would expect it to perform at 1.5ghz *all* the time. If it has
> problems with heat running at spec then it shouldn't be sold as a
> 1.5ghz cpu.
> --
> eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
> http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip