And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment.
Robert
Hull, Qubec
And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment.
Robert
Hull, Qubec
At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at
this point, but borderline defective.
At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics
improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am
thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over.
N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start.
1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so
getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top
grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I
am no longer impressed by the AI.
2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and
a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this.
3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3.
What _is_ it with that car wobble?
4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts
actually work.
5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some
of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc...
But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts
that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain
threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time.
I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and
going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be
useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS.
Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer,
though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we
really need to push for.
6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it
sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down
my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds.
7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI?
8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a
race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the
worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked
cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no
where. This is a new problem with N3.
There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been
mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in.
And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims,
so don't even go there...
Thany you :)
-Larry
--Dave
PS -- It's ok if it's not the best in some people's book... I just really
love it. The only sim I'm not bored with after a month or two.
--
Dave Schwabe
"If you're in control, you're not going fast enough" -- Parnelli Jones
The Aussie Toad -- GPL Brabham Page
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
> And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment.
> Robert
> Hull, Qubec
> > This may ruffle some feathers here, but...
> > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable
at
> > this point, but borderline defective.
> > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics
> > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am
> > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over.
> > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start.
> > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so
> > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the
top
> > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever,
etc...
> I
> > am no longer impressed by the AI.
> > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card,
> and
> > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this.
> > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3.
> > What _is_ it with that car wobble?
> > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file
> restarts
> > actually work.
> > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all.
Some
> > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc...
> > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts
> > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain
> > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of
> time.
> > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball
> and
> > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be
> > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS.
> > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the
> answer,
> > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we
> > really need to push for.
> > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it
> > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow
down
> > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds.
> > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI?
> > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish
a
> > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the
> > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the
wrecked
> > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no
> > where. This is a new problem with N3.
> > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been
> > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in.
> > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing
> Sims,
> > so don't even go there...
> > Thany you :)
> > -Larry
> This may ruffle some feathers here, but...
> At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at
> this point, but borderline defective.
> At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics
> improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am
> thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over.
> N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start.
> 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so
> getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top
> grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I
> am no longer impressed by the AI.
> 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and
> a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this.
> 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3.
> What _is_ it with that car wobble?
> 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts
> actually work.
> 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some
> of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc...
> But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts
> that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain
> threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time.
> I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and
> going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be
> useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS.
> Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer,
> though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we
> really need to push for.
> 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it
> sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down
> my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds.
> 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI?
> 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a
> race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the
> worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked
> cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no
> where. This is a new problem with N3.
> There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been
> mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in.
> And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims,
> so don't even go there...
> Thany you :)
> -Larry
Larry a crit dans le message ...
> > This may ruffle some feathers here, but...
> > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable
at
> > this point, but borderline defective.
> > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics
> > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am
> > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over.
> > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start.
> > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so
> > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the
top
> > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever,
etc... I
> > am no longer impressed by the AI.
> > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card,
and
> > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this.
> > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3.
> > What _is_ it with that car wobble?
> > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file
restarts
> > actually work.
> > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all.
Some
> > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc...
> > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts
> > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain
> > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of
time.
> > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball
and
> > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be
> > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS.
> > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the
answer,
> > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we
> > really need to push for.
> > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it
> > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow
down
> > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds.
> > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI?
> > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish
a
> > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the
> > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the
wrecked
> > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no
> > where. This is a new problem with N3.
> > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been
> > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in.
> > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing
Sims,
> > so don't even go there...
> > Thany you :)
> > -Larry
I've been playing GPL for a year and a half. That's including the countless
hours with the demo that came out Easter '98. I think GPL came out
more than a year ago.
Agreed, and agreed. In terms of feeling connected to the road, the
only thing that compares to GPL for me is GP2, and maybe Viper.
I agree there, not impressed by the N3 FF at all. I think it's due
to the simplistic physics of N2/N3 compared to GPL. The data
to create great FF just isn't there the way it is in GPL.
--
Pat Dotson
They cheapo' ed out and hired a bunch of East Block Countries engineers and
Techs. Look at the credits at the end.
Junk!!!!
Crash
If you have something useful to contribute, fine. Otherwise, keep your wise
ass comments to yourself please.
-Larry
I have no intention of buying it because I am not into that era of racing
:-)
Plus it is probably just N3 with 1969 cars.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
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Then crank the AI setting above 85% :-)
--
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I haven't had the above problem at all. In fact the swerving down thing
you describe is seen many times in a real race as drivers "slam the
door". I thought that was one improvement :-)
I don't have this problem at all. But then again I have the same CPU and
RAM with a 12MB Voodoo2 card. It could make a difference. I think the
graphics and speed are superb. What FF wheel do you have? It could be
affecting your framerate.
I agree. I am not exactly buying the "maxed out AI" excuse either. At
first I thought it was cool because the AI was trying to block you and
dart in front of you. But the more I look at it, it seems like defective
programming :-)
No kidding. This is especially gauling since the problem was there
in N2/NR1999. They never even tried to fix it IMHO. N3 just added
support for FF wheels and better graphics.
I'm sorry to say I haven't done multiplayer at all yet. But from what I hear
it is not that great. My "racin buddy" has N3 but we haven't tried online
yet.
I think we are both hesitant about the TCP/IP only multiplay option. What
we want it to do modem/modem play just like N2/NR1999. This used
to be a blast. Now by forcing us to use our ISP connection and do a
TCP/IP race is a total hassle. And when we do try it, it better work just
like N2/NR1999.
As you probably know, I am about the only one here that really likes the FF
in N3. I don't have any latency problems or other problems. Everything is
solid and smooth, and you can really feel when you good buddy slams into
you. I especially like the bump you feel as you get close to the rear bumper
of the car in front of you. IMHO this is what Nascar racing is all about :-)
I can also feel the front tires losing grip in turns. The sensation is light
but it is definately there. Remember the Winston Cup cars have power
steering.
Bummer.
Well I agree with about 50% of your issues with N3 :-)
About 2 months ago I wrote a N3 review and submitted it to CGW. They
apparently don't want it so I will probably post it here shortly :-)
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>>They cheapo' ed out and hired a bunch of East Block Countries
>>engineers and Techs. Look at the credits at the end.
>I have no intention of buying it because I am not into that
>era of racing :-)
>Plus it is probably just N3 with 1969 cars.
Nascar Legends is an N3-engine based sim with older stock cars, different
tracks, and different handling characteristics. It's got appeal for
folks that want something that's the same, yet different
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A nascar sim based on the GPL engine would be cool.
Oh my apologies :-)
--
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If you think N3 is crap, donate your copy to someone who will enjoy it
and
go back to GPL.
Many of us don't think it's crap, we understand that it doesn't have
the GPL
engine, and we knew this before we bought it.
We enjoy Nascar racing, and currently N3 is the best in the business.
Personally, I like the vastly improved graphics and graphics
performance,
the improved AI, and the slightly improved physics. I think it was
worth
every penny I paid for it.
Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have.
I guess you missed:
1. The highly upraded, and much smarter, AI.
2. The vastly improved sounds.
3. Graphics that the older versions can't compare to.
4. Video performance that completely blows away the previous
versions.
5. Online play that, while certainly not TEN quality, is very well
integrated and easy to use.
IMHO, Nascar Racing 3 is the _first_ upgraded release of the series
since
the first N2 that can truly be called an upgrade. This is no whimpy
Nascar
1999. This is an honest-to-goodness upgrade that improves nearly
every
facet of the simulation.
Graphics
---------
I simply have to start here. This version brings Nascar Revolution
Eye-Candy, without the down-side. There simply is NO down-side.
I have every single option turned on and set to it's highest setting.
1024X768. 16 Bit Color. Full 40 car field, with all cars visible
front and
back. All sounds set to their best quality. All textures on. Full
track
visibility. Absolutely everything turned on at it's highest setting.
I had absolutely no frame-rate problems at all. Most amazing, I had
NO
popup's at all. Not at any track I tested, including Talladega and
Bristol,
the two worst tracks for this sort of thing.
The translucent smoke and persistant skid-marks are really cool. Even
more
important, I had no frame-rate 'clogs' during periods of heavy smoke.
The realism of the smoke and skids is really something. If you get
behind
someone with a smoking tire or engine, it actually hinders your
visibility
just like it should. If there is a big pile-up, you drive into a
blinding
floating cloud of smoke, just like you should.
I cannot overstate how impressed I am with the quality, realism, and
performance of the graphics. Papy has done what is seemingly
impossible
here.
Personally, I think this is the simulation that future games will be
measured against when it comes to graphics quality, realism and most
importantly performance.
I can deal with the 2D Cockpit. It is such a huge improvement over
N2/99
that I don't care there aren't shadows on the gauges from the needles.
Even
the mirrors work right now! Finally :)
Mental note - I'm a registered NRHQ user... Must check the web site
for an
update that works with N3.
Physics
-------
No bones about it. There is a huge improvement here as well. While
it is
the N2 engine, it is not the _same_ N2 engine. The handling of the
car is
much more realistic to me. Changes in setup work like you think they
will
(finally).
A couple of things I notice that I've never seen before. First, if
you tap
a car in the rear quarter, you aren't automatically spun out like you
tended
to be in N2. N2 would snap-spin you in a heartbeat. N3 will make
your car
react much like you would expect it to. Anything from a mild bobble,
to a
full spin.
Speaking of bobble's, the car's do it now. Instead of just 'wiggling'
when
you tap them, you can see realistic body roll along with the wiggle.
Secondly, it's interesting to watch the relationship of the cars
compared to
the painted lines on the track. If a car is loose, you can actually
_see_
that it is loose. The rear of the car will visibly be drifted out
further
from the line than the front of the car. The little whif of smoke you
see
from tires is a good indication as well :) In N2/99, the cars were
always
square to the line as they went around the track, whether they were
loose or
not.
There was more attention to detail here than I expected, and I think
most
will be very happy with the improvements in the physics.
Oh, the realistic 'tire hop' when accellerating from a stand-still and
spinning the tires is pretty cool too :)
AI
--
Wow!
For the first time, it feels like you are actually racing skilled
drivers
instead of brain-dead robots! It's funny, but Dale Earnhardt did a
tap-and-pass on me at Bristol in one race. LOL :)
The drivers draft properly. They will take advantage of _any_
mis-step you
have. They don't come down on you in the corners like they did in
NR1999.
This was actually quite horrible in NR1999. Even worse than N2, IMHO.
This
has been nearly completely corrected in N3.
I actually did some FOUR wide racing at Talladega. As long as _you_
are up
to it, _they_ are up to it. These guys really race with some good old
fashioned common sense now. Well, most of the time. I did have one
bone-head at Dega come from the outer lane and swerve down in front of
me to
enter the pits. It happens in real racing, so I guess it's part of
the deal
:)
I could swear I got bump-drafted once at Dega...
Sound
------
I don't have 3D sound, but the sounds in N3 are much, much improved.
It
actually sounds like a race car now. Tire squeel, impacts, etc... all
sound
much like the real thing now. You can actually hear squeel's leading
up to
impacts :)
Installation, etc...
-----------------
No issues here.
It plays without the CD!!!
Interface
---------
Plenty familiar, but improved. I like it.
Force-Feedback
-----------------
It feels a little weak to me. However, I suspect there is a setting
buried
somewhere that will eventually be uncovered to tweak this.
Why don't game manufacturer's supply customized profile files for the
most
popular wheels/joysticks, such as the MSFFW and others?
Other than the somewhat-weak Force-Feedback, I find it hard to
complain
about this game. It is the _first_ Nxxx upgrade since the original N2
that
I feel good about paying for.
> At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely
un-enjoyable at
> this point, but borderline defective.
> At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics
> improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am
> thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over.
> N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start.
> 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after
so
> getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from
the top
> grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever,
etc... I
> am no longer impressed by the AI.
> 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2
Card, and
> a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this.
> 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar
Racing 3.
> What _is_ it with that car wobble?
> 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file
restarts
> actually work.
> 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all.
Some
> of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections,
etc...
> But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race
hosts
> that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain
> threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period
of time.
> I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their
ball and
> going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't
be
> useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with
NROS.
> Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the
answer,
> though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what
we
> really need to push for.
> 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I
think it
> sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but
slow down
> my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds.
> 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI?
> 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to
finish a
> race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be
the
> worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the
wrecked
> cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and
go no
> where. This is a new problem with N3.
> There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been
> mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in.
> And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of
Racing Sims,
> so don't even go there...
> Thany you :)
> -Larry