> You know something, 4XAGP is about as much vapor as the NV10 or Rampage.
> You try to argue for everyone else that this is a feature they should
> consider but since Intel will probably get 4XAGP out in late 99, its
> worthless to me.
preferences and explain them. The "late 99" doesn't matter to me, as I have
explained often and tediously. I just want to buy a card that will support
it so that when it's avialable I don't have to buy a new motherboard AND a
new graphics card to get to use it--just a new mobo. That's why I can't see
spending $$$ right now on a non-AGP4X compliant card. Instead, I'll spend
money on one that provides it instead of one that doesn't. Then, I'll have
to spend less money later. Very simple.
> take advantage of 4XAGP compared to the other cards. Until I actually see
> the performance of 4XAGP, I just cannot get hyped for it. I have seen
S3TC
> and there is no doubt in my mind, its the technology to beat in 99 and
> probably 2000 (T&L will give it a go if its implemented correctly). Since
a
> lot of people have made so much fuss about 2XAGP and how its so important
to
> have texturing across the APG bus, it turned out that it was about as
useful
> as having large texture support for 2048. Yes its a good number but try
to
> run a game with textures that large and see how great this feature is.
enough to suit you? Or are you determined to do only what 3dfx allows you to
do? The point of supporting texture sizes "up to" 2048X2048 is that you have
the FLEXIBILITY to run textures of any size in between. Don't you get it? Q3
will be using 512X512 sizes. Want to tell Carmack how useless and stupid you
think that is? Personally, I don't think the guy is as stupid as you think
he is.
As far as texture compression goes...I haven't seen enough of S3TC to know
whether I like it or not. I look at AGP 4X as a physical matter involving
curcuitry and transfer speeds--that's what it is to me. It's a real
hardware improvement --which is why I want it. S3TC is a proprietary
software compression scheme--I don't even think of them in the same way.
> I have said as much in other post. The TNT 2 doesn't wow me and the V3
> definitely doesn't. You keep saying, wait for the TNT 2 to come out
before
> anyone buys a V3, I say wait for the S3 Savage, Matox G400 Max, Permedia 3
> and ATI pro.
than the V3. That's why I'll buy the TNT2. However, if two months later one
of these other cards (except ATI--I won't even look at their cards--their
driver support really stinks) blows away the TNT2--I'll BUY it! I am not
prejudiced toward companies, as I've tried to say. It's the products I like
(coupled with past experience--which is why I won't consider ATI.)
> No, maybe Nvidia haven't thought it out all that well. On this point, its
> total speculation and I guess we will have to revisit this one when Nvidia
> next card arrives.
finished with their design...? I don't think we should pronounce them as
having shot themselves in the foot until we know for sure they've done that.
> Well, if anyone plan on keeping the card they buy in the next couple of
> months for about a year 1/2, I say neither the TNT 2 or the V3 is a great
> choice but we will see.
buy them. All they have to do is to provide me with what I want at the time
and if I can afford it I'll buy them. If I waited for the "best"--heh--I'd
*always* be waiting...:)
> And judging by 3dfx track record, they will not until they are ready.
They
> will not make stupid statements and hope they can deliver by the time
they
> stated.
3dfx...:/ Man. please...give me a break. 3dfx is made out of
people--fallible, ordinary, mortal people with all of the strengths and
weaknesses of anybody else. They are no worse and no better than anybody
else.
> And why should he. He is arguing current technology not future hardware
> they have in development. Seems quite silly of him to mention something
> that is not even out and that everyone will hold him to when their hasn't
> been a official statement.
you? And that's precisely the point. When you are in business--you need
customers to survive. You start telling your customers where to get off--you
spew reams of hype when they ask you reasonable questions--and guess what?
Your customers disappear and become *somebody else's* customers. Don't you
understand that this is *precisely why* 3dfx is surrounded by competition on
all sides as never before, and why the *commanding lead* the company had for
so long is GONE? Somewhere, some how, 3dfx stopped listening to its
customers and instead seems to enjoy listening only to itself.
> Well, you got that right, current hardware. This whole thing goes into
the
> same thing about the competitive advantage point I stated in other
First you admit to not knowing what, if anything, 3dfx has on the drawing
board post V3, but you maintain that the reason 3dfx doesn't talk about it
is because of giving up "competitve advantage"---but how do you know whether
3dfx isn't mentioning future directions because of "competitve advantage" or
because 3dfx has nothing to talk about? For all you know, "competitive
advantage" may have nothing to do with the matter at all. 3dfx simply may
have nothing competitve beyond the V3 4000 to talk about at this time.
That's why it is so important for companies to talk about general directions
at times--so that people will know that they DO have future plans--they
don't have to be specific--but it helps to know something about where they
are going. With 3dfx right now--none of us knows that 3dfx *has* a future
direction beyond V3 4000.
mind
> of. I see any company in this business working their butts off to
separate
> their products from the rest.
doing to "separate" itself from other card makers by WAY OF INNOVATION. What
the heck is INNOVATIVE about the V3? Could you share that with me? I mean,
didn't another company already put out a V2 SLI on a single board last year?
Is it INNOVATIVE when they take the Banshee and add a V2 to the mix?
They're taking the pieces of what they already had and combining them! The
list of "totally new" features on the V3 is *very short*, isn't it?
> Only because you want to look at the worst case scenario. As far as 3dfx
> putting all their cards on the table for this year, I think not.
> No, V2s are still being made and quite cheap at that
which aren't.
> What it means is, everyone do not feel they need to upgrade to the latest
> feature until they see a reason to. I have not see a real reason to
upgrade
> to 32 bit color, 32 megs, stencil buffer. and definitely not AGP
OK, how about CUSTOMER DEMAND? Surely you aren't trying to say that if 3dfx
released the V3 with 32-bit rendering, 32 megs of ram, and so forth and so
on, FOR ALMOST THE SAME PRICE, that you would turn it down because of the
extra ram and other things? I mean--hey--that's fine. In a free economy,
lots of people spend more for less every day...no reason you should be an
exception, right? (I'm going to be the exception...:))
> Come on here, do you actually think the V3 will be the only offering for
99,
> Gary himself even said that the V3 will be the slowest thing they ship
this
> year. Like I said before, you look at the worst case scenario and I will
> look at the mid to best case. We will see which scenario will be. It
seems
> to me, that you are looking at things in a very narrow light which is
quite
> common for a consumer.
official that 3dfx has said about the "V3 being the slowest thing we'll ship
this year?"
If you can--then fine, I'll concede the point gladly. THAT's the sort of
thing I'd like to hear from 3dfx. OK, where can I go to read official 3dfx
material on this subject? It's NOT on their web site.
> the Permedia 3 (I really like the specs on this card) does absolutely
> nothing for me as well (yes this goes for the V3).
the Permidia 3. I'll certainly look hard at them when they come out. But I
intend to buy a TNT2 in early May, anyway. (Can't stand ATI, and S3 has
never made anything I've wanted.) IF these cards demostrably eat the TNT2's
lunch--that's what I'll buy.
> If you know it so much, why are you wasting the man time with questions
> ??????
> What you *Know* as a truth for you might not be the same with others.
Your
> world is not the only one on this planet. Your experiences do not shape
> everyone else in this NG!!! If you do not believe what the man is saying
> just state it and go about your buisness.
Of course, I know that 3dfx's pretend 22-bit rendering (it's not
22-bit--it's "simulated" 22-bit done out of a 16-bit frame buffer) is not
the same thing, or as good as, 24-bit rendering with 8-bit alpha! Don't YOU
know that? I
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