rec.autos.simulators

by **Chris Schlette** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Who cares? They don't even have the Voodoo3 3500 out yet? Later this year
the next gen product by Nvidia will be out. All you are talking about is
vaporware at this point. TNT2 and Voodoo3 2000/3000 are out, or nearly out.

Read the web. Ever review as the TNT2 and Voodoo3 neck and neck, one better
in one game, the other better in another. Thats all until you look at 24
and 32 bit color where the Voodoo3 can't go. And then you look at
resolutions higher than 1024x768 and the TNT2 still does a better job at
16bit, as the Voodoo3 drops quite sharply off. Check out
www.sharkyextreme.com, www.tomshardware.com, www.anandtech.com and probably
some others I can't think of off the top of my head.

Actually its been out quite awhile. It does NOT run on V2SLI easily, but
runs very very nice on a TNT based card.

Nope. Too bad there is NO glide version of Quake2, it uses OpenGL, period.
And SCGT looks better in D3D, so does SBK to name at least two. And the TNT
definetly beats the Voodoo2s out when running D3D games such as Viper
Racing, Shogo, ***2, etc.

Thats the best thing you said.

Yes, why I will keep both my Voodoo2s for now.

Nope, they aren't. However, beta cards have been shipped and shown off by
companies such as Diamond to reliable hardware websites.

Technically? The TNT2.

You did a pretty good job of doing exactly what you say others are dong.
And before you even think it, no I do NOT own a TNT.

by **andr** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I 've had EXACT same problem as you have.

One sweeping format and fresh install of win98 solved ALL my problems.

Try it. And whatever you are griping in terms of speed/image quality
will improve, especially speed.

AD -v3 200 owner-

I'll be exchanging it for V3 3000 as soon as I see them on the
shelves. I love 30 day exchange policy.

by **CHT** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

X is clueless, I haven't seen anybody say that any of the games
currently out that do support 32Bit look any better when played at that
res. If he was smart enough to mention that the TNT does a better job at
16 bit dithering I would agree with him, but the differences are not as
big as some say. Large monitors are much more of a crippling factor for
the TNT than the Voodoo (if you have SLI) because on a large monitor at
1280x1024 and up, the TNTs 2D output is mediocre at best and for anybody
who uses their computer for serious use other than ***, the TNT is
not a viable option on a large, high quality monitor. I haven't read
anything that gives me any reason to believe that the 2D in the TNT2 is
going to be improved (although I hope I am wrong). For me the G200 and
SLI still looks to be the best option until the G400, Permedia3, Voodoo
4, or NV10 come out but they are all just vaporware at this point and
who knows? My opinions about the 2D of the TNT at high res on a large
monitor come from experience, not by reading a review or someone else's
posts. In my opinion (doesn't mean I am right) the TNT is a better
*** chip than a single V2 (as long as Glide doesn't matter to you)
and a toss up compared to SLI or V3 depending on the type of games you
prefer but its mediocre 2D at high res is a real spoiler for some. I do
know that if I had to buy a chip right now I would probably buy a V3
2000, clock it and be happy until next Fall/winter when the truly
awesome stuff comes down the pike.

> I want you to list EVERY Sim/GAME that uses 32 bit.

> Now, list EVERY GAME/SIM that uses 16 bit.

> Get the point?

> By the time 32 bit SIM/GAMES are the rage, there will be
> "NEWER" Video Cards out. Jumping the gun in any tech
> related piece of hardware is a foolish thing to do. It just
> pisses off the consumer when they have to upgrade every
> 2 months to keep up, not to mention the companies that
> have to re-tool to keep up also. So, in retrospect, your full
> of BS.

> :o)

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> *** e.o.f. ***

> > > and uh how exactly will you run glide only games with that TNT2? and
> dont
> > > tell me that Tribes and other glide games that have "added" opengl
> supprt
> > > run just as well on a TNT because before I got my Voodoo3 3000 I had a
> TNT
> > > and 2 Voodoo2 SLi and tried tribes in opengl mode - I ASSURE you that
> the
> > > glide version runs WAY better just as usual in most games and for Quake2
> > we
> > > all KNOW that any Voodoo product kicks the daylights out of opengl
> > versions

> > Oh yeah...you forgot that the V2, and V3 cards look real bad on bigger
> > monitors,
> > not only becouse of the lavk of 32bit rendering, but the bad picture
> quality
> > and,
> > lifeless colors.

> > > I am not saying the TNT2 wont be a good card as I was considering
> getting
> > > one of those but since I sold my TNT and 2 Voodoo2's and got the Voodoo3
> > > 3000 for free basically I will wait for the Voodoo4 with all those
> lovely
> > 32
> > > bit features etc and 4xagp support when the actual motherboard that
> INTEL
> > > says wont even be out before LATE SEPT is out - and QuakeIII isnt even
> > near
> > > being released yet so yes all you TNT2 people will have a card that
> > supports
> > > 32bit color and that great AGP4x but WONT EVEN HAVE A MOTHERBOARD THAT
> > USES
> > > IT - while the V3 people can make ANY game scream including all the
> glide
> > > only ones

> > Bullshit, any game that uses bigger texures will kill your FPS on V3.
> > And don`t tell me about x4 AGP, V3 don`t even supports x2 AGP texturing !
> > Quake3 beta is out for quite a long time, and TNT runs it a LOT better
> then
> > V2SLI !

> > > ummm also wasnt the TNT supposed to be a Voodoo2 killer -lol- can you
> > really
> > > trust a company like NVIDIA ever again after they made that claim?

> > Sure we do !

by **Alfred Pu** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Guys, stop it PULEEEZE!! ;)))))

Alfred

by **Alfred Pu** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Scott,

don't you know? Glide is dead ...

NOT!!!!

Alfred

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

It all depends on how many "clouds" he had to go through. :)

(Bad WAN joke, I know.)

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I wonder if he realises what he just said. :)

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Considering the V3 2000 is out and under $120 in most places, has the same ram
as the V3 3000 and apparently is quite easily overclockable to 166 - who's
paying a lot of money here?

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

What card covers all the bases?

TNT2: No S3TC support. Savage4 games running S3TC will look far superior.
Savage4: Questionable speed at this point, history of flaky drivers.
V3: Obvious 16-bit only limitation, no true AGP texturing.
G400 Max: Matrox states "premium pricing". No firm release date. Bump mapping
at a 50% performance hit, no S3TC.

Every card has drawbacks right now. The TNT2 and Savage4 are *both* just faster
versions of their predecessors with no additional features, much like the V3.
Actually, I am indeed "covering my bases" - by getting a V3, I'll have access to
the largest library of 3D games at a very cheap price. By the time those games
that demand 24-bit colour and S3TC start appearing in any discernable volume,
the *true* next-generation products like the NV10 will be just on the horizon,
with texture compression, geometry acceleration, no hit from 24-bit colour, etc.
A TNT2 will look just as stale as a V3 at that point - I'm concerned with
getting the card that plays most of todays games well right now.

You weren't even on the dock.

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Oh. Or "nearly out". No, the 2000/300 are OUT. The TNT2 is *not*.

And you make a comment about vapourware, but mention Nvidia's "next gen"
product, which is nothing more than a press release.

Yes. And then the TNT2 falls behind the V3. 24-bit is hardly free on the TNT2.

Uh, no it doesn't.

> www.sharkyextreme.com,

Did. With the exception of bizarre Incoming results, the V3 wins.

by **Timothy McNeil** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

And, still less features then my pre-ordered TnT2!! Seems to me that Voodoo
three has less features then the rest you cite. No AGP?? Come on--that is
a real poor design. Intel has been on the market with this for almost a
year or more. I'll take the TnT2 any day over a Voodoo 3. I could care
less about some of those Glide only games. I am new to this *** thing
and I find most of those titles worthless. I want quality games and those
new titles on the shelves and hitting the stores soon are using an open API
and use quality textures. Me thinks you have taken the step backwards when
it comes to this argument!! But, you must like upgrading just for the sake
of holding on to a card that offers less then the competition will be in the
next month, or two. Those cards are not vaporware. These cards are being
reviewed and soon will de-throne the tired old king. But in fairness, you
have the right to waste your money. I value the most bang for the buck!!

> > The point is, why not upgrade when you need to and cover all the bases
with
> > a card (not a Voodoo 3) that does all of the state of the art things at
the
> > present time????!!!

> What card covers all the bases?

> TNT2: No S3TC support. Savage4 games running S3TC will look far superior.
> Savage4: Questionable speed at this point, history of flaky drivers.
> V3: Obvious 16-bit only limitation, no true AGP texturing.
> G400 Max: Matrox states "premium pricing". No firm release date. Bump
mapping
> at a 50% performance hit, no S3TC.

> Every card has drawbacks right now. The TNT2 and Savage4 are *both* just
faster
> versions of their predecessors with no additional features, much like the
V3.
> Actually, I am indeed "covering my bases" - by getting a V3, I'll have
access to
> the largest library of 3D games at a very cheap price. By the time those
games
> that demand 24-bit colour and S3TC start appearing in any discernable
volume,
> the *true* next-generation products like the NV10 will be just on the
horizon,
> with texture compression, geometry acceleration, no hit from 24-bit
colour, etc.
> A TNT2 will look just as stale as a V3 at that point - I'm concerned with
> getting the card that plays most of todays games well right now.

> > You missed the boat on this argument by a mile

> You weren't even on the dock.

by **PhilippeSerge..** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> Can you please save this for WHEN THE FLIPPING CARD IS OUT.

All I really want to know is the following: will Voodoo3 allow my
present racing games (GPL, Viper) and other games (X-Wing alliance,
Half-life, Tribes) to work with faster frame rates and higher resolution
than my Voodoo2? My other main concern: is it going to be able to run
Nascar 3 at high resolution with high frame rates? Last time I checked,
Nascar 3 was going to be a 3Dfx only game...

Philster

by **Dave** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> How do you know the TnT2 is better as the VooDoo3?
> Have you tested the TNT2?? Sure every manufactorer
> can come up with a line of nice futures of which most
> are completly not understandable for most of us.

I agree. I have seen the reviews and they all say the Voodoo3 is one
awesome card. What if the TNT2 turns out to be a bunch of hype like the
ATI Fury? My how the Fury talk has died down around here. Right now, I
want a Voodoo3.

Dave
--
I welcome all email replies.
Remove the antispam "X" from my address to reply.

by **Machiavellia** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>> And, still less features then my pre-ordered TnT2!!

>Sorry, but I can't purchase your "pre-ordered" TNT2 yet. I can for a V3.

>The point is, you can indeed wait for a TNT2 because of its "enhanced
feature
>set". Then in less than 6 months, newer cards will be out which
significantly
>superior feature sets - perhaps even from Nvidia itself. This generation
of
>cards is going to have a *very* short lifespan, possibly only equalled by
the
>very first generation of 3D hardware.

>> three has less features then the rest you cite. No AGP?? Come on--that
is
>> a real poor design. Intel has been on the market with this for almost a
>> year or more.

>And tell me a game that truly benefits from it. As cards get faster, AGP
>becomes *less* relevant. When you're delivering over 3 gigs/sec in
bandwidth,
>you don't think you'll see a huge hit if you start pulling textures out
through
>AGP at 350megs a second? There's a reason so few games actually use AGP
>texturing - it simply *cripples* performance.

I will add only one thing to this, Trespasser If you ever want to see what
AGP as of now means as a feature, I think Trespasser says it all, Texturing
over the AGP bus is just about worthless.

As we all know, the TNT 2 and V3 offer nothing new but speed. Neither
product is exciting or significant for their lifespan. Since the TNT 2
starts with a better feature set, it might end up being the better card but
I think even Nvidia knows that they have to capture as many people as
possible because the window for the TNT 2 is quite small. I do not know if
anyone else realize this but for Nvidia to state that they will have T&L in
99 when they have yet to release TNT 2 sales, could hurt the TNT 2 sales as
well as the V3. Who the heck wants to dish out $200 bucks than have to turn
around 6 months and do it all over again.

Well since he said he was new to the *** scene, I really do not think he
actually knows what he is talking about

Then why waste your time with the TNT 2, as Nvidia has said, they will have
T&L in 99 which seems like it will really add more bang to your buck!!

- Show quoted text -

by **Barney Gumbl** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

It all depends on how many "clouds" he had to go through. :)

(Bad WAN joke, I know.)

rec.autos.simulators

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