rec.autos.simulators

>> > The point is, why not upgrade when you need to and cover all the bases
>with
>> > a card (not a Voodoo 3) that does all of the state of the art things at
>the
>> > present time????!!!

>> What card covers all the bases?

>> TNT2: No S3TC support.  Savage4 games running S3TC will look far superior.
>> Savage4:  Questionable speed at this point, history of flaky drivers.
>> V3: Obvious 16-bit only limitation, no true AGP texturing.
>> G400 Max: Matrox states "premium pricing".  No firm release date.  Bump
>mapping
>> at a 50% performance hit, no S3TC.

>> Every card has drawbacks right now.  The TNT2 and Savage4 are *both* just
>faster
>> versions of their predecessors with no additional features, much like the
>V3.
>> Actually, I am indeed "covering my bases" - by getting a V3, I'll have
>access to
>> the largest library of 3D games at a very cheap price.  By the time those
>games
>> that demand 24-bit colour and S3TC start appearing in any discernable
>volume,
>> the *true* next-generation products like the NV10 will be just on the
>horizon,
>> with texture compression, geometry acceleration, no hit from 24-bit
>colour, etc.
>> A TNT2 will look just as stale as a V3 at that point - I'm concerned with
>> getting the card that plays most of todays games well right now.

>> > You missed the boat on this argument by a mile

>> You weren't even on the dock.

>>And tell me a game that truly benefits from it.  As cards get faster, AGP
>>becomes *less* relevant.  When you're delivering over 3 gigs/sec in
>bandwidth,
>>you don't think you'll see a huge hit if you start pulling textures out
>through
>>AGP at 350megs a second?  There's a reason so few games actually use AGP
>>texturing - it simply *cripples* performance.

>I will add only one thing to this, Trespasser  If you ever want to see what
>AGP as of now means as a feature, I think Trespasser says it all,  Texturing
>over the AGP bus is just about worthless.

>SS

>>Got a Voodoo3 2000 PCI yesterday.  So far, it scores a big, big zero
>>from the standpoint of a racing and flight sim fan.

>>Firstly, the drivers don't work properly.  My monitor is very dark,
>>so I need to adjust the gamma levels.  However, although the gamma
>>sliders work correctly in adjusting the desktop and Direct 3D games,
>>all the gamma slider for Glide accomplishes is making the 3dfx splash
>>screen brighter or darker -- applications are unaffected, so the two
>>that I've got to work have been unplayably dark for me.

>>Speaking of which, here are the results of what I've run so far:

>>Running on a 75MHz bus with an AMD K6 300MHz processor (not K6-2),
>>40MB of fastpage RAM (gotta get that updated!), Turtle Beach Montego
>>PCI sound card, and, of course, the Voodoo3 2000 PCI video card.

>>   Grand Prix Legends:
>>Works if set to limit texture memory at 2MB.  Frame rate is slower
>>than it was on my Stealth II S220 (4MB Rendition V2100) card, though
>>I can run in higher resolutions.  I have not downloaded the GPL patch
>>for OpenGL support, so can't give a report on whether that works with
>>this card.

>>   Viper Racing (v 1.1):
>>Fails to load in Glide mode, even selecting the "-nointro" switch.
>>Works fine in Direct 3D.  Can run at 800 x 600 with a benchmark of
>>over 38 frames per second.  This is the only improvement I've had
>>over my old setup.  I even reinstalled the whole game trying to get
>>it to work in Glide, but it would not.  My monitor light goes yellow,
>>suggesting no signal.

>>   NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition:
>>Works fine.  No discernable difference over how it operated with
>>my old Monster 3D.  Same frame rates.  The new walls and ads I
>>recently downloaded still repaint themselves as I get near,
>>which really distracts me.  I had hoped that this weird effect
>>was only happening because of the old 4MB Monster 3D not having
>>enough texture memory.  In replays, the replacement ads are always
>>visible, and look terrific.

>>   Pro Pilot 99 (two updates applied):
>>Works.  I did not fly, though.

>>   Need For Speed III - Hot Pursuit:
>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>   Carmageddon 2 - Carpocalypse Now!:
>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>   European Air War (latest patches; I forget the version number):
>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>My modem's speaker crackles with an incredible amount of noise.
>>My phone line is clear, so the noise is coming from the board.
>>Since this didn't happen until installing the Voodoo3, I blame
>>it.  My two attempts at connection to the net have resulted in
>>31.2 connections -- slower than usual, but not terribly uncommon.
>>No disconnects have occurred yet, so I don't know if this noise
>>is actually getting into the line or if it's just on the speaker.
>>It's still quite disconcerting.  There are two PCI and two ISA
>>slots open between the modem and the video card.

>>So for now I give up.  Unless the STB/3dfx tech support response
>>suggests that this card is defective, and/or proper drivers are
>>provided within a day or so, I'll probably trade the card in for
>>a reliable Voodoo2 card, and put the Rendition board back in so
>>I can still soldier along at 12-30 fps in GPL, and actually be
>>able to see, as well as play the other games which don't work
>>at all with the Voodoo3 -- so much for "Highest software
>>compatibility" (from the front of the box).

>>(Note: I was only able to see with the Stealth because I was
>>using drivers designed for the Hercules Thriller, a Rendition
>>V2200 board, which has gamma controls for Windows 98, whereas
>>the Stealth drivers do not.  And the gamma controls for the
>>Monster 3D Voodoo card worked also.)

>>--

>#2159831
>>http://www2.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Animaniacs, P&TB, F!, etc.
>files
>>http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI files - Updated 5
>Dec.

>P.S. I kicked Jesus' ***in Deathmatch Quake2!  He tried to blame the
>phone lines from heaven!

>> >No one will take the advice of a moron like you.

>> I would.

>I wonder if he realises what he just said. :)

>Dude either you are a TNT troll or you have not installed the driver
>correctly.

>EVERY GLIDE (hell make that every) game I have works perfect and many
>of them are your list.

>>>>Got a Voodoo3 2000 PCI yesterday.  So far, it scores a big, big zero
>>>>from the standpoint of a racing and flight sim fan.

>>>>Firstly, the drivers don't work properly.  My monitor is very dark,
>>>>so I need to adjust the gamma levels.  However, although the gamma
>>>>sliders work correctly in adjusting the desktop and Direct 3D games,
>>>>all the gamma slider for Glide accomplishes is making the 3dfx splash
>>>>screen brighter or darker -- applications are unaffected, so the two
>>>>that I've got to work have been unplayably dark for me.

>>>>Speaking of which, here are the results of what I've run so far:

>>>>Running on a 75MHz bus with an AMD K6 300MHz processor (not K6-2),
>>>>40MB of fastpage RAM (gotta get that updated!), Turtle Beach Montego
>>>>PCI sound card, and, of course, the Voodoo3 2000 PCI video card.

>>>>   Grand Prix Legends:
>>>>Works if set to limit texture memory at 2MB.  Frame rate is slower
>>>>than it was on my Stealth II S220 (4MB Rendition V2100) card, though
>>>>I can run in higher resolutions.  I have not downloaded the GPL patch
>>>>for OpenGL support, so can't give a report on whether that works with
>>>>this card.

>>>>   Viper Racing (v 1.1):
>>>>Fails to load in Glide mode, even selecting the "-nointro" switch.
>>>>Works fine in Direct 3D.  Can run at 800 x 600 with a benchmark of
>>>>over 38 frames per second.  This is the only improvement I've had
>>>>over my old setup.  I even reinstalled the whole game trying to get
>>>>it to work in Glide, but it would not.  My monitor light goes yellow,
>>>>suggesting no signal.

>>>>   NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition:
>>>>Works fine.  No discernable difference over how it operated with
>>>>my old Monster 3D.  Same frame rates.  The new walls and ads I
>>>>recently downloaded still repaint themselves as I get near,
>>>>which really distracts me.  I had hoped that this weird effect
>>>>was only happening because of the old 4MB Monster 3D not having
>>>>enough texture memory.  In replays, the replacement ads are always
>>>>visible, and look terrific.

>>>>   Pro Pilot 99 (two updates applied):
>>>>Works.  I did not fly, though.

>>>>   Need For Speed III - Hot Pursuit:
>>>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>>>   Carmageddon 2 - Carpocalypse Now!:
>>>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>>>   European Air War (latest patches; I forget the version number):
>>>>Fails to load in any configuration attempt.

>>>>My modem's speaker crackles with an incredible amount of noise.
>>>>My phone line is clear, so the noise is coming from the board.
>>>>Since this didn't happen until installing the Voodoo3, I blame
>>>>it.  My two attempts at connection to the net have resulted in
>>>>31.2 connections -- slower than usual, but not terribly uncommon.
>>>>No disconnects have occurred yet, so I don't know if this noise
>>>>is actually getting into the line or if it's just on the speaker.
>>>>It's still quite disconcerting.  There are two PCI and two ISA
>>>>slots open between the modem and the video card.

>>>>So for now I give up.  Unless the STB/3dfx tech support response
>>>>suggests that this card is defective, and/or proper drivers are
>>>>provided within a day or so, I'll probably trade the card in for
>>>>a reliable Voodoo2 card, and put the Rendition board back in so
>>>>I can still soldier along at 12-30 fps in GPL, and actually be
>>>>able to see, as well as play the other games which don't work
>>>>at all with the Voodoo3 -- so much for "Highest software
>>>>compatibility" (from the front of the box).

>>>>(Note: I was only able to see with the Stealth because I was
>>>>using drivers designed for the Hercules Thriller, a Rendition
>>>>V2200 board, which has gamma controls for Windows 98, whereas
>>>>the Stealth drivers do not.  And the gamma controls for the
>>>>Monster 3D Voodoo card worked also.)

>>>>--

>>>#2159831
>>>>http://www2.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Animaniacs, P&TB, F!, etc.
>>>files
>>>>http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI files - Updated 5
>>>Dec.

> I agree. I have seen the reviews and they all say the Voodoo3 is one
> awesome card.  What if the TNT2 turns out to be a bunch of hype like the
> ATI Fury?  My how the Fury talk has died down around here.  Right now, I
> want a Voodoo3.

>> I agree. I have seen the reviews and they all say the Voodoo3 is one
>> awesome card.  What if the TNT2 turns out to be a bunch of hype like the
>> ATI Fury?  My how the Fury talk has died down around here.  Right now, I
>> want a Voodoo3.

>What if it isn't hype and "what if" you can't return your V3 because you've
>waited too long? How're you going to feel then? Best advice: wait until the
>TNT2 ships and *then* decide.

>> I agree. I have seen the reviews and they all say the Voodoo3 is one
>> awesome card.  What if the TNT2 turns out to be a bunch of hype like the
>> ATI Fury?  My how the Fury talk has died down around here.  Right now, I
>> want a Voodoo3.

>What if it isn't hype and "what if" you can't return your V3 because you've
>waited too long? How're you going to feel then? Best advice: wait until the
>TNT2 ships and *then* decide.

>> I will add only one thing to this, Trespasser  If you ever want to see
>what
>> AGP as of now means as a feature, I think Trespasser says it all,
>Texturing
>> over the AGP bus is just about worthless.

>Quite true for 2X AGP--completely wrong for 4X AGP. In fact, 4X AGP will at
>last make AGP texturing feasible and will show demonstrable advantages over
>systems which don't support it. And TNT2's got 4XAGP texturing--V3 doesn't,
>and V3 4000 won't, either. 3dfx better have a new product slated to release
>before Christmas--if they don't they are going to get clobbered.\