rec.autos.simulators

JC isn't a games _designer_, he's a games _programmer_ with 3D-engine
and multiplayer code in focus. I don't know if you have to be a
programmer to appreciate his work, I think a lot goes over most
peoples heads.

Just for the record, I don't give a damn about Q3A(the game) either.
That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the work for what it is. It
simply is the nicest, cleanest, most customizable piece of *** code
around.

As for games _designing_ gods(as JC isn't a designer), there are
others. Peter Molynaux, Sid Meier et.al....

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92

Btw, why the hell would it be so different that you couldn't do a
carsim 3d-engine but make the world's best FPS 3d-engine?

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92

I've been quite impressed by some FPS. Half-Life was quite good
technically, but also had realistic environments, good AI (in those
special forces guys) and a great atmosphere.
IMO the people that wrote Half-Life deserver more credit than Id.

Marc

The majority of my *** time these days is almost evenly split
between FPS (UT, Rogue Spear, Deux Ex, NOLF) and simulations. Its
because I am such a devotee of every genre that I can comfortably
state that I dont think *JC* is all that....(and isnt it cute how you
abreviate his name so that it matchs that other great games programmer
who was so much better....)

Your opinion of him is also subjective....just to keep you honest dont
you know.

Hey far be it from me to try and dampen the thunder and lightening
that go with being *JC* but there are people who make some rather
remarkable flight sims and car sims that have tremendous engines and
remarkable multiplayer code. To me a comparable achievement by *JC*
would be for his world to be living and breathing whilst we chase each
other around firing all sorts of things at each other...and each of
those things would be reacting and behaving according the actual
weapons according to the way the world actually works. Furthermore the
things that are AI would be reacting in an intelligent fashion using
real world tactics of evasion and offense. Just a touch different than
what is seen in most FPS engines...though Rogue Spear is pretty damn
good.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Flanker Target
Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy
Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at
www.papadoc.net

--
Bard
www.1vvfsc.org
Vancouver Virtual Flight Sim Club

Nice polemics, though.

Actually, I think that sims very often are sorely lacking in both
fields(multiplayer and graphics) and there are few games that can
stack it up in both fields at once. After all. there aren't *that*
much games in the sim genres or anywhere for that matter that can
handle 32-64 player online given any bandwidth, nor keep framerates
pegged and have lush graphics at the same time.

Let's look at auto-sims..

Nice cutting edge graphics: SBK2001, Mercedes Truck racing, F1RC...
then what?

Multi-player: GPL(not so stable though), N3/N4... hmm... Well I'm
out...

I think we talk past eachother constantly. I try to assess the quality
of the code and features and benefits of a graphics engine and you are
talking about gameplay, AI, and so on. I don't even think Carmack(tell
me when I can "namedrop" again willya) did AI work, but they brought
in some guy that did 3:d party bots for Q1.

Rouge Spear for example, I love the game, but it is pretty awful as
far as the graphics engine goes. Texture thrashing galore, pretty poor
unstable framerate, no dynamic lighting, so-so texture filtering and
detail. I don't think it even does multi-texturing! Give me that game
with the Q3 engine I say!

I got to play ST:Elite Force the other day, and *boy* what a treat it
was having the Q3A engine in a single player game experience, as
opposed to the lithtech engine in NOLF(better game, though) I had
played with for some weeks. Can't anybody see where I'm going with
this?

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92

How much credit should id have for making Half-life's engine then? We
all knew that their designers left much to be desired. But the great
thing about Quake 1,2 and 3 is the customizeability that is built in
to it.

Quake1 really was ground-breaking in that respect with an actual
modularized engine, where you could separate the "inner wokings" from
the actual game. Add to that the "mods" capability from QuakeC that
brought us Team Fortress, CTF and in the longer run the Counter-strike
phenomenon...

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92

Pluses are the scripting, and the way that the enemy ai will work together in
a co-ordinated way.  Downside was the netcode (wasn't that modified QuakeWorld
code?), as remarked above, although it's worth remembering that Valve did not
anticipate Half-Life having the "after-life" online that it turned out to
have, and so didn't feel that the netcode was a huge priority.  In their
favour, they've released numerous free updates to the game at the request of
the community, including the recent complete rewrite of the netcode.

Some would argue that Unreal/UTs UScript is a far more flexible language.  I
do have some saved posts knocking about on that topic, if you want to take a
look, I'll mail them to you.  At the time of Q3's release, some parts of the
mod community felt that it was rather mod unfriendly - certainly in comparison
to UT, the other "big" multiplayer only title of the time.

If you'd call him that I would agree with it. But I don't think that
distinction was made in this thread...

How much credit should the Half-Life poeple get for making better use
of that engine? IMO Half-Life looked better than Quake2.
Or did Id improve the engine for them?

Marc

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -41.92