rec.autos.simulators

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

Mr.

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Mr. » Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:00:00

Drivers,

If anyone out there is using either of these wheels for Nascar Racing 2,
please I would love to hear from y'all on your experiences with them. I am
in the market for either the TSW or the ECCI CDSR2 and would like to gather
as much info as possible so send all your gripes or praises or both :)
Thanks for your time and input...

Jeff 'JR' Euclid
IVGA Fastlap 97 Participant
Black Hole Motorsports

JDean

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by JDean » Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:00:00


> Drivers,

> If anyone out there is using either of these wheels for Nascar Racing 2,
> please I would love to hear from y'all on your experiences with them. I am
> in the market for either the TSW or the ECCI CDSR2 and would like to gather
> as much info as possible so send all your gripes or praises or both :)
> Thanks for your time and input...

> Jeff 'JR' Euclid
> IVGA Fastlap 97 Participant
> Black Hole Motorsports

Jeff; I own the ECCI and it is Very smooth. The 4 buttons are located on
the wheel right where your thumbs lay. 2 buttons are used for shifting
and I use 1 other for reverse.(The TSW doesnt have reverse) The pedal
unit is fully enclosed and the spring tension is very good, light on the
gas and medium on brake. You can adjust the steering throw and the
tension of the wheel which really helps. I have also owned the TSW which
I sold when I received my ECCI. If you only have $300 buy the TSW. If
you have about $600 then definitely get the ECCI. PS: the T2 is crap.
Jim Deane JDeane on Hawaii
Director of SNARL ( Ace Setup League )
IVGA Gold Series
Nascar Invitational Series
Higgy's FUN2 Series
INL97 & Fastlap97
Owner of Computer Corner ( Retail Computer Store )

Webpage: http://www.mindspring.com/~jdeane
Michael E. Carve

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Michael E. Carve » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00


% Jeff; I own the ECCI and it is Very smooth. The 4 buttons are located on
% the wheel right where your thumbs lay. 2 buttons are used for shifting
% and I use 1 other for reverse.(The TSW doesnt have reverse) The pedal
% unit is fully enclosed and the spring tension is very good, light on the
% gas and medium on brake. You can adjust the steering throw and the
% tension of the wheel which really helps. I have also owned the TSW which
% I sold when I received my ECCI. If you only have $300 buy the TSW. If
% you have about $600 then definitely get the ECCI. PS: the T2 is crap.

I follow you all the way to the very end (your P.S.).  I beg to differ,
the T2 is not crap!  A T2 can be had for under $100.  This makes it a
solidly built VW bug.  Now granted a VW bug compared to a Ferrari may
seem like crap, but then the Ferrari will cost 6x the VW.  Even a Porche
can be had for 3x the price of a Bug.  But that still doesn't make the
Bug crap.  Now a Yugo is a different story.  And without naming brand
names, there are some "Yugo" steering wheel systems out there.

My T1 is going on 4 years now and it still gets me around the track and
across the Start/Finish line!
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

JDean

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by JDean » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00



> % Jeff; I own the ECCI and it is Very smooth. The 4 buttons are located on
> % the wheel right where your thumbs lay. 2 buttons are used for shifting
> % and I use 1 other for reverse.(The TSW doesnt have reverse) The pedal
> % unit is fully enclosed and the spring tension is very good, light on the
> % gas and medium on brake. You can adjust the steering throw and the
> % tension of the wheel which really helps. I have also owned the TSW which
> % I sold when I received my ECCI. If you only have $300 buy the TSW. If
> % you have about $600 then definitely get the ECCI. PS: the T2 is crap.

> I follow you all the way to the very end (your P.S.).  I beg to differ,
> the T2 is not crap!  A T2 can be had for under $100.  This makes it a
> solidly built VW bug.  Now granted a VW bug compared to a Ferrari may
> seem like crap, but then the Ferrari will cost 6x the VW.  Even a Porche
> can be had for 3x the price of a Bug.  But that still doesn't make the
> Bug crap.  Now a Yugo is a different story.  And without naming brand
> names, there are some "Yugo" steering wheel systems out there.

> My T1 is going on 4 years now and it still gets me around the track and
> across the Start/Finish line!
> --
> **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
>      Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael; I own a retail computer store and I have sold over 200 T1's and
T2's in the last 3 years. My Return ratio on these wheels is 30 to 40 %
which is very high. The Throttle throw is too long and causes springs to
break frequently especially to those that race alot of short track
stuff. I'll rephrase my answer, if you only have $100 buy the T2, if you
have $300 buy the TSW, and if there is any way to beg, borrow or steal
$600 then definitely buy the ECCI :) The way I look at it is that I dont
need the problems that come with buying a T2 if your a Serious league
racer. I also shoot tournament archery amd I didnt get my bow at
Walmart. Remember that QUALITY is always worth the wait and NROS had
better be good :)  Jim Deane, JDeane on Hawaii
Kyle Thibodeau

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Kyle Thibodeau » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00

So that's why your kick'n our ass in the NIS league. We may have to make
you go back to that T2 Jimmy.<G>
KTHEMAN ( Wish I had a ECCI Motorsports)






> > % Jeff; I own the ECCI and it is Very smooth. The 4 buttons are located
on
> > % the wheel right where your thumbs lay. 2 buttons are used for
shifting
> > % and I use 1 other for reverse.(The TSW doesnt have reverse) The pedal
> > % unit is fully enclosed and the spring tension is very good, light on
the
> > % gas and medium on brake. You can adjust the steering throw and the
> > % tension of the wheel which really helps. I have also owned the TSW
which
> > % I sold when I received my ECCI. If you only have $300 buy the TSW. If
> > % you have about $600 then definitely get the ECCI. PS: the T2 is crap.

> > I follow you all the way to the very end (your P.S.).  I beg to differ,
> > the T2 is not crap!  A T2 can be had for under $100.  This makes it a
> > solidly built VW bug.  Now granted a VW bug compared to a Ferrari may
> > seem like crap, but then the Ferrari will cost 6x the VW.  Even a
Porche
> > can be had for 3x the price of a Bug.  But that still doesn't make the
> > Bug crap.  Now a Yugo is a different story.  And without naming brand
> > names, there are some "Yugo" steering wheel systems out there.

> > My T1 is going on 4 years now and it still gets me around the track and
> > across the Start/Finish line!
> > --
> > **************************** Michael E. Carver

*************************
> >      Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  <

]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

- Show quoted text -

Michael E. Carve

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Michael E. Carve » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00


% Michael; I own a retail computer store and I have sold over 200 T1's and
% T2's in the last 3 years. My Return ratio on these wheels is 30 to 40 %
% which is very high. The Throttle throw is too long and causes springs to
% break frequently especially to those that race alot of short track
% stuff. I'll rephrase my answer, if you only have $100 buy the T2, if you
% have $300 buy the TSW, and if there is any way to beg, borrow or steal
% $600 then definitely buy the ECCI :) The way I look at it is that I dont
% need the problems that come with buying a T2 if your a Serious league
% racer. I also shoot tournament archery amd I didnt get my bow at
% Walmart. Remember that QUALITY is always worth the wait and NROS had
% better be good :)  Jim Deane, JDeane on Hawaii

This I can agree with.  At least we are qualifying what we are saying.
I will be the first to agree that there are some short-comings with
T1/T2 line, especially the springs on the pedals.  It took ThrustMaster
a long time to address this issue by getting a different type of spring.
However, I also agree that the "throw" of the pedals is way too much.
But, since I limited the travel of the pedals, I haven't had a spring
break and the feel is more realistic.  

Until I stop making house and car payments, I can't justify the extra
$200-$500 for a steering wheel/pedals for my computer.  I am glad that
the different range of quality/cost wheels exist.  But, if Thrustmaster
didn't have a "entry" level product, I would still be racing with a
joystick (and that ain't racing <g>).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Robert Huggi

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Robert Huggi » Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Well said.

Are the potentiometers higher quality on the TSW or ECCI?

TSW owners, on average, how long do the pots last?  How smooth does
the needle/triangle move across the calibration screen after a year of
heavy use?

ECCI owners, same question.

--
Best Wishes!!!
Robert Huggins
Raleigh, NC

Mike Radl

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Mike Radl » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00


> Well you people who blow 600 dollars on the cheapest ECCI wheel or even
>1600 for the best one.All i have to say is either you have plenty of money
>to blow or you have to much time on your hands or both.

I'm not sure what time (explain) has to do with it but money is certainly
a factor. If your budget is tight then you'll have to search for something
that gives you the most bang for the buck which for some might
be a $4 used joystick. I agree, the ECCI does not provide the most
bang for the buck. Neither does a Ferrari, Corvette or even a Mustang.
That's not why people buy these products.

Obviously, that number is relative.

I would guess that you don't even know ONE of ECCI's costs
associated with the production of thier units yet your able to
estimate the total??? BTW, a product that is priced at the very
high end of a given market is likely to sell at a much lower volume
than a product priced at the mid to low end of the market. It's not
uncommon for a company to make more money on the cheaper
(with small markups) items than they do on the high end ones.
I imagine Ford did pretty well with the Escort line.

Mike Radler

Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Robert Platt

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Robert Platt » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00

 Well you people who blow 600 dollars on the cheapest ECCI wheel or even
1600 for the best one.All i have to say is either you have plenty of money
to blow or you have to much time on your hands or both.Just my opinon if I
spent 1600 dollars on a wheel and pedal combo I better get a whole
inca***t for a total sim environment .Anything over 250 dollars is way to
much and a freaking rip off i don't car if it has liquid damping steering
and all this other bullcrap9I would think for 1600 dollars they would put a
shifter on it like a T2 has of )I spent a 100 dollars on my T2 and I am very
happy with it.ECCI cost to make the wheel and pedals is maybe 400 dollars
and they charge 1600 thats one hell of a markup.

Robert



>><snip> One important note is that the ECCI does
>>use a HIGHER value pot in the gas and brake in the ECCI compared to the
>>TSW. I beleive the TSW uses 150 ohm pots and the ECCI uses 250 ohm. This
>>allows a wider range on the gas and brake. If you have to buy
>>replacement pots on the ECCI they cost $11 compared to less on the TSW
>>so I would say that the ECCI are better but cant confirm this. I will
>>say that the ECCI pots are SEALED where the TSW pots are not. Thats
>>right you cant spray cleaner into them.

>This is one of the primary reasons I finally chose ECCI over TSW.
>At the time, the TSW pedals had no cover at all for the components
>and they were using unsealed pots. Aside from protection against
>particulates, the sealed pots are usually much more moisture
>resistant. Anyway I felt, since I'm already spending more than my
>wife wants, I might as well get the one that *seems* to be of the
>highest quality. Component protection, perceived fit and finish
>were all part of my quality equation. I'll let you know in a year or
>so whether or not I'm happy with my decision<G>

>> As far as calibration goes, both
>>are smooth without jerkyness, however you can set up the gas and brake
>>on seperate axis with the ECCI which is very helpful when driving using
>>the gas and brake at the same time. I understand that the TSW is
>>including this as a option now but that it costs more, same with the
>>pedal cover ( a option with TSW ).

>You can get an ECCI that has 3 different modes of pedal operation:
>1. Gas and brake on the same axis.
>2. Gas and brake on separate axis.
>3. Gas pedal using a switch and the brake using an axis.

>Mode 3 is supposedly able to produce better results for
>average drivers using Nascar1.

>Mike Radler

>Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.racesimcentral.net/

JDean

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by JDean » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00



> >My T1 is going on 4 years now and it still gets me around the track and
> >across the Start/Finish line!

> Well said.

> Are the potentiometers higher quality on the TSW or ECCI?

> TSW owners, on average, how long do the pots last?  How smooth does
> the needle/triangle move across the calibration screen after a year of
> heavy use?

> ECCI owners, same question.

> --
> Best Wishes!!!
> Robert Huggins
> Raleigh, NC


Hello Robert;
        Supposedly the ECCI does have better pots in their units. Over a year
ago Sim Racing News posted a review of the two wheels and the one noted
problem between the two was that the TSW needed more frequent
replacement of the pots. My personal experience with people that own the
TSW is that they seem to last just as long as I havent heard of any of
my racing freiends with the TSW have to replace their pots. Mine is a
year old and still going fine. One important note is that the ECCI does
use a HIGHER value pot in the gas and brake in the ECCI compared to the
TSW. I beleive the TSW uses 150 ohm pots and the ECCI uses 250 ohm. This
allows a wider range on the gas and brake. If you have to buy
replacement pots on the ECCI they cost $11 compared to less on the TSW
so I would say that the ECCI are better but cant confirm this. I will
say that the ECCI pots are SEALED where the TSW pots are not. Thats
right you cant spray cleaner into them. As far as calibration goes, both
are smooth without jerkyness, however you can set up the gas and brake
on seperate axis with the ECCI which is very helpful when driving using
the gas and brake at the same time. I understand that the TSW is
including this as a option now but that it costs more, same with the
pedal cover ( a option with TSW ).
        Last but not least, the ECCI looks KILLER !! F1 type swede covered
leather steering wheel, brushed polished aluminium, gas and brake are in
a black triangle box with the pedals at just the right angle. I hope
this has helped and Robert, you dont need one as your fast enough
already :)  Jim Deane
JDeane on Hawaii
VLX4

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by VLX4 » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00

huggis isn't fast,he cheats his ass off

Robert Huggi

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Robert Huggi » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00


Well said.

Are the potentiometers higher quality on the TSW or ECCI?

TSW owners, on average, how long do the pots last?  How smooth does
the needle/triangle move across the calibration screen after a year of
heavy use?

ECCI owners, same question.

--
Best Wishes!!!
Robert Huggins
Raleigh, NC

Mike Radl

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Mike Radl » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00


><snip> One important note is that the ECCI does
>use a HIGHER value pot in the gas and brake in the ECCI compared to the
>TSW. I beleive the TSW uses 150 ohm pots and the ECCI uses 250 ohm. This
>allows a wider range on the gas and brake. If you have to buy
>replacement pots on the ECCI they cost $11 compared to less on the TSW
>so I would say that the ECCI are better but cant confirm this. I will
>say that the ECCI pots are SEALED where the TSW pots are not. Thats
>right you cant spray cleaner into them.

This is one of the primary reasons I finally chose ECCI over TSW.
At the time, the TSW pedals had no cover at all for the components
and they were using unsealed pots. Aside from protection against
particulates, the sealed pots are usually much more moisture
resistant. Anyway I felt, since I'm already spending more than my
wife wants, I might as well get the one that *seems* to be of the
highest quality. Component protection, perceived fit and finish
were all part of my quality equation. I'll let you know in a year or
so whether or not I'm happy with my decision<G>

You can get an ECCI that has 3 different modes of pedal operation:
1. Gas and brake on the same axis.
2. Gas and brake on separate axis.
3. Gas pedal using a switch and the brake using an axis.

Mode 3 is supposedly able to produce better results for
average drivers using Nascar1.

Mike Radler

Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

JDean

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by JDean » Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:00:00


>  Well you people who blow 600 dollars on the cheapest ECCI wheel or even
> 1600 for the best one.All i have to say is either you have plenty of money
> to blow or you have to much time on your hands or both.Just my opinon if I
> spent 1600 dollars on a wheel and pedal combo I better get a whole
> inca***t for a total sim environment .Anything over 250 dollars is way to
> much and a freaking rip off i don't car if it has liquid damping steering
> and all this other bullcrap9I would think for 1600 dollars they would put a
> shifter on it like a T2 has of )I spent a 100 dollars on my T2 and I am very
> happy with it.ECCI cost to make the wheel and pedals is maybe 400 dollars
> and they charge 1600 thats one hell of a markup.

> Robert

> Robert; Like I said:

If you have a $100 buy a T2,
If you have $300 buy a TSW,
If you have $600 buy a ECCI,

For $1600 you get everything imaginable and this model was not even in
the comparison. The Normal model from ECCI is about $600 and gives all
of the previos mentioned features. So I will restate my answer again
with this addition:

If you have $1600 buy the Big Boy ECCI :)
If you have even more money then consider the Hyper Simulator with F1
replica***pit, stereo sound, variable fan to simulate speed thru the
air and many more goodies :)

If you have EVEN MORE MONEY then consider going REAL racing. I spent
$5000 a year racing the SCCA Endurance series and now Hawaii and
hopefully the NROS should replace that just fine for me.

As you can see Robert, it is all relative to the money. For some it
takes more to satisfy their need. This does not make them crazy.

ECCI tried to build a wheel for under $400 but felt that it was not the
quality product that they were looking to sell thus their good stuff
starts at $600 and goes all the way up to $1600.

As I told Huggins, you are also fast enough already so please stay with
your T2 :)   Jim Deane

Trevor C Thoma

TSW/ECCI Wheel Owners....

by Trevor C Thoma » Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:00:00


> Hello Robert;
>         Supposedly the ECCI does have better pots in their units. Over a year
> ago Sim Racing News posted a review of the two wheels and the one noted
> problem between the two was that the TSW needed more frequent
> replacement of the pots.

Hi,

At one time the pots in our TSW did fail but now we have custom made
ones that hold up very well. We have made a lot of other improvements in
the TSW also since the review that you mentioned came out.

One thing that we're working on now is an all digital model of the TSW
that will not use pots at all, we hope to release it in 1998.

Trev


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