rec.autos.simulators

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:36:17

no results for the taping crowd.

i recently saw an interview with a couple of F1 types, and they slammed
the racing in cart quite harshly. Well after watching the cleveland CART
race & the F1 event in France today...CART wins...for this weekend at least.
When Brack & Fernandez exited the pits side by side...I flashed back to a
race many years ago when Jacques Villeneuve & Robbie Gordon raced each other
off the track several times...
STirring stuff in this age of equal cars and limited passing.
And the finish....what drama....that's what racing is about.
dave henrie

by **Haqsa** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:42:55

Yeah, that race certainly made a believer out of me!

by **Tim** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:12:41

> Yeah, that race certainly made a believer out of me!

> > no results for the taping crowd.

> > i recently saw an interview with a couple of F1 types, and they
> slammed
> > the racing in cart quite harshly. Well after watching the cleveland
> CART
> > race & the F1 event in France today...CART wins...for this weekend at
> least.
> > When Brack & Fernandez exited the pits side by side...I flashed back
> to a
> > race many years ago when Jacques Villeneuve & Robbie Gordon raced each
> other
> > off the track several times...
> > STirring stuff in this age of equal cars and limited passing.
> > And the finish....what drama....that's what racing is about.
> > dave henrie

I always watch both CART and F1 and like both equally.

The first few F1 races this year were the best in a long time I
thought, then the boring Monaco race and things have been just pretty
good since, with the usual dramatic moment or two.

I often think that if what happens regularly in a CART race happened in
an F1 race, people would be saying the F1 race was one of the all-time
classics. I thought about that one alot today during the Cleveland
race. The usual wheel to wheel banging, crashing in the pits, chasing
down the leader who is low on fuel with dramatic radio communications.

CART is usually better for wild action for sure, but F1 has the history
and legend' on its side. I guess I have a feeling that F1 races and
their established road courses are part of a long history, where I feel
that CART, much like NASCAR, is more of a television event. I get
pumped up for the start of F1 and watch it closely and ponder the
implications, but know that CART will generally have more sustained
craziness.

Man, we need a new CART sim so bad- all those textures and bumps on
the airport today with the wide lanes for passing...

Tim

by **Schlom** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:38:42

As far as the history thing goes I'll admit F1 has it (excpet on the Indy500
and LeMans). However I havent seen a really exciting F1 race in well...its
been a while. And im not talking a couple brilliant moves here and there. I'm
talking 2nd place running down the leader then passing him, then getting passed
back, repassing, etc, etc, etc. While CART doesnt always provide this...it
provides alot more of it. Todays Cleveland race was one of the best I've seen
in quite a while. And the next race at Toronto (if that course lives up to its
reputation) should be a good one too. However for my money the best road
racing to be found is in the sportscar ranks nowadays...but thats a different
thread.

Chris
"Its something unpredictible but in the end is right, I hope you had the time
of your life."-Greenday

by **TRUSRS** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:54:10

CART CART CART CART!!!!!!

by **Tim** » Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:50:39

> As far as the history thing goes I'll admit F1 has it (excpet on the Indy500
> and LeMans). However I havent seen a really exciting F1 race in well...its
> been a while. And im not talking a couple brilliant moves here and there.
> I'm
> talking 2nd place running down the leader then passing him, then getting
> passed
> back, repassing, etc, etc, etc. While CART doesnt always provide this...it
> provides alot more of it. Todays Cleveland race was one of the best I've seen
> in quite a while. And the next race at Toronto (if that course lives up to
> its
> reputation) should be a good one too. However for my money the best road
> racing to be found is in the sportscar ranks nowadays...but thats a different
> thread.

I thought the first few races this year were exciting, especially the
monsoon racing in Malaysia, Montoya and Coulthard taking on Schumacher
for dramatic passes in the rain in Brazil; Hakkinen's practically final
turn blowup in Spain. Things got off to a crazy start, but things have
settled down in F1 for the moment.

Tim

by **Kevin Gavit** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 08:07:03

Excuse me? I don't think I quite caught that.

What are you trying to tell us?

KFG

by **XZZY** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:14:54

F1 has been doing it's racing in the pits, CAD programs and sponsor's banks
until very recently. Now F1 is actually doing some racing on the track.
Something CART and IRL have done for many years. I am not in any way
pointing the finger at the F1 drivers, but directly to the administrators of
F1.

John Bickmore
www.bicyclecam.com
www.feed-zone.com

by **David Kar** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:23:24

Just a thought (and it's not new):

I think ever since McLaren upped the ante (again) in 1988, F1's Power(s)
That Be's have been looking for a way in induce a bit of competitiveness for
the mass TV viewers' sakes. (By which I mean, those who don't want to
hear--really *hear* and understand--the tech bits, but instead want
"passing".) Thus bring back refueling ("pit stops are exciting!"); don't
ask the spectator to appreciate the balance between speed in the early bits
(Berger at Mexico, 1990) and someone who conserves tires and makes the car
work in the later stages of the race (a la Prost in the same race). Now we
have two (or three) sprints; finesse has suffered.

The pre-refueling era, 1989-94 (I know, I know, refueling was allowed for
much of the turbo-era too), I think, asked for a different type of spectator
than TV mass audiences could deliver, when McLaren were by and large so
***.

cheers,
David

by **Rafe McAulif** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:24:19

Yep, those first few races were very cool, as well as Canada. But
there have been more average to boring races than good ones as usual.
They just throw in the odd good one to keep us coming back :-)

The CART race was ***y awesome, just how racing should be (apart
from the bullshit of saving fuel, although it can make for a close
finish). Now if they could keep the politics out of it...

Rafe Mc

by **Rafe McAulif** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:31:21

On the Australian showing of the race, they had an interview with
Bobbie Rahal, giving his views on F1 and CART. Had some interesting
things to say, especially about how much the F1 paddock fobs off the
racing in the US and Australia. Also about how ridiculously the money
is distributed based on performance, when the only performers are
those with $200m plus budgets.

Definitely such a pity that F1 has such a "snob" factor about it, they
could learn a thing or two about racing from CART.

Rafe Mc

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:04:50

A prime example of the lack of 'snob factor' in cart is the Champ-cam they
now have at the cart.com website. Instead of forcing us to watch a canned
pre-formatted softball question and answer session they follow the winner
around through all the bs and hoopla...
dave henrie

> On the Australian showing of the race, they had an interview with
> Bobbie Rahal, giving his views on F1 and CART. Had some interesting
> things to say, especially about how much the F1 paddock fobs off the
> racing in the US and Australia. Also about how ridiculously the money
> is distributed based on performance, when the only performers are
> those with $200m plus budgets.

> Definitely such a pity that F1 has such a "snob" factor about it, they
> could learn a thing or two about racing from CART.

> Rafe Mc

> > no results for the taping crowd.

> > i recently saw an interview with a couple of F1 types, and they slammed
> >the racing in cart quite harshly. Well after watching the cleveland CART
> >race & the F1 event in France today...CART wins...for this weekend at
least.
> >When Brack & Fernandez exited the pits side by side...I flashed back to a
> >race many years ago when Jacques Villeneuve & Robbie Gordon raced each
other
> >off the track several times...
> >STirring stuff in this age of equal cars and limited passing.
> > And the finish....what drama....that's what racing is about.
> >dave henrie

by **Tim** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 11:49:11

> Yep, those first few races were very cool, as well as Canada. But
> there have been more average to boring races than good ones as usual.
> They just throw in the odd good one to keep us coming back :-)

> The CART race was ***y awesome, just how racing should be (apart
> from the bullshit of saving fuel, although it can make for a close
> finish). Now if they could keep the politics out of it...

> Rafe Mc

So wouldn't Alesi have fun in CART (if rumors are true- he said he
might like to race here). I love Jean, and if he could adapt and got a
good ride, he would be fun to watch.

Tim

by **Rafe McAulif** » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 19:30:44

>> Yep, those first few races were very cool, as well as Canada. But
>> there have been more average to boring races than good ones as usual.
>> They just throw in the odd good one to keep us coming back :-)

>> The CART race was ***y awesome, just how racing should be (apart
>> from the bullshit of saving fuel, although it can make for a close
>> finish). Now if they could keep the politics out of it...

>> Rafe Mc

>So wouldn't Alesi have fun in CART (if rumors are true- he said he
>might like to race here). I love Jean, and if he could adapt and got a
>good ride, he would be fun to watch.

>Tim

Agreed, he's still managing to do some good things with that ***y
Prost. I wonder what will happen if Herbert gets into CART, will he
ever throw away that unlucky rabbit's foot? Maybe he'll staple a black
cat to his front wing? ;-)

Rafe Mc

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