rec.autos.simulators

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

Sébastien Tixie

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Sébastien Tixie » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:05:07

Hi !

Just currently watching CART on Eurosport.

Well, i thought the lake of the Elkart Lake track was near the tracks
not actually ON the tracks ! , LOL ;o)

Seriously, WHY they let the race start with this big stream on the track
!!! now look out the consequences, the cars looks like piece of crushed
metal ....it's a shame ...

Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer
Dynamics and Car Physics
Overall GPLRank -42.97
Monster GPLRank -116.28

nobodyspecia

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by nobodyspecia » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:31:06


No kidding.  I'm surprised they even started the race, and more than one
driver has said the same already.

malicious top poste

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by malicious top poste » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:39:43

CART continues to amaze me!! Do they race in the rain like F1 or not? What a
crock of shit, they never seem to know what they are doing as a race
(dis)organization. First they start a race under caution??!! What the hell
was that? Then red flag it because it's too wet?? What a joke.....

JS




> > Hi !

> > Just currently watching CART on Eurosport.

> > Well, i thought the lake of the Elkart Lake track was near the tracks
> > not actually ON the tracks ! , LOL ;o)

> > Seriously, WHY they let the race start with this big stream on the track
> > !!! now look out the consequences, the cars looks like piece of crushed
> > metal ....it's a shame ...

> No kidding.  I'm surprised they even started the race, and more than one
> driver has said the same already.

nobodyspecia

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by nobodyspecia » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:44:34



Yes, they do race in the rain but it's not even raining there right now.
You must not have seen the race (still in progress now)- there's a drainage
problem and there's a huge stream of water running across the track in one
place, while the rest of the track is dry.  F1 cars would be hydroplaning
across that area too- one driver said it's almost 2 inches deep in one part.

malicious top poste

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by malicious top poste » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:58:18

I know all of that, my point is that, what? It never rained there before?
Yeah right, they just continue to amaze me with how "unprepared" they are.
Texas is a perfect example, if it's not properly testing a track before you
sign a contract, it's not having a circuit that you've raced on before
properly setup for drainage. Yeah!! Now ESPN2 is leaving the race! Because
CART is a bunch of  amateurs..........

JS




> > CART continues to amaze me!! Do they race in the rain like F1 or not?

> Yes, they do race in the rain but it's not even raining there right now.
> You must not have seen the race (still in progress now)- there's a
drainage
> problem and there's a huge stream of water running across the track in one
> place, while the rest of the track is dry.  F1 cars would be hydroplaning
> across that area too- one driver said it's almost 2 inches deep in one
part.

Jan Verschuere

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:27:37

Watch the coverage... be informed.

They started under yellow in order to follow schedule and with the idea of
drying the track some by running the cars on it. This seemed to work, so the
race was allowed to start. A yellow saw the track drying even further...
enough for some people to change to slicks. However, a temporary fix had
given way increasing the problem of water running across the track between
The Kink and Turn 12. The people on slicks could make it through only if
they were following another car close, so Moreno and Takagi (who were off
the back of the pack) came unstuck. Dealing with these incidents under full
course would see the track drying completely, except for the bit where the
water ran across, so the race was red flagged while the water was diverted
by the CART safety team.

Of course, with hindsight, the water across the track problem should have
been solved before the race was allowed to go for the first time, but I
guess with all of the track wet it wasn't as obvious as it was to the
drivers at speed.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"JS (malicious top poster)" wrote...

Alex Kihuran

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Alex Kihuran » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:21:06

Well they race in the rain at road courses but not at ovals.

Thanks,
Alex


> CART continues to amaze me!! Do they race in the rain like F1 or not? What
a
> crock of shit, they never seem to know what they are doing as a race
> (dis)organization. First they start a race under caution??!! What the hell
> was that? Then red flag it because it's too wet?? What a joke.....

> JS





> > > Hi !

> > > Just currently watching CART on Eurosport.

> > > Well, i thought the lake of the Elkart Lake track was near the tracks
> > > not actually ON the tracks ! , LOL ;o)

> > > Seriously, WHY they let the race start with this big stream on the
track
> > > !!! now look out the consequences, the cars looks like piece of
crushed
> > > metal ....it's a shame ...

> > No kidding.  I'm surprised they even started the race, and more than one
> > driver has said the same already.

malicious top poste

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by malicious top poste » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:06:38

Yeah, well you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I just think that the
whole starting the race under yellow was a joke, they handled the whole
thing poorly. My biggest complaint is that the course isn't new and there
had been rain there before, they knew what was going to happen! They
shouldn't have let them switch to slicks or they should actually certify
every track they run at and fix what can go wrong. It would have fixed the
whole Texas embarrassment as well. It's unprofessional behavior and it's
happened twice this year.

JS


Olav K. Malm

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Olav K. Malm » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:11:37


> Watch the coverage... be informed.

> They started under yellow in order to follow schedule and with the idea of
> drying the track some by running the cars on it. This seemed to work, so the
> race was allowed to start. A yellow saw the track drying even further...
> enough for some people to change to slicks. However, a temporary fix had
> given way increasing the problem of water running across the track between
> The Kink and Turn 12. The people on slicks could make it through only if
> they were following another car close, so Moreno and Takagi (who were off
> the back of the pack) came unstuck. Dealing with these incidents under full
> course would see the track drying completely, except for the bit where the
> water ran across, so the race was red flagged while the water was diverted
> by the CART safety team.

> Of course, with hindsight, the water across the track problem should have
> been solved before the race was allowed to go for the first time, but I
> guess with all of the track wet it wasn't as obvious as it was to the
> drivers at speed.

In the Chris Kneifel interview, he said that the water situation
appeared after they started the race. When they started it it didn't
seem to be a problem. Anyone with a little background in geotechnics
know that running water in soil is a bit unpredictable. However, some
track building engineer could have prevented this with a better design
in the first place. Blaming CART for this is just jumping the cry-baby
band wagon, and is just plain stupid.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

Jan Verschuere

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:51:47

You're seriously suggesting the governing body intervening on tire selection
for a drying track? -LOL, that's a good one.

I can sort of see your sentiment when compared to the clout the FIA has.
Unfortunately CART is not in that position. I'm not even sure that is a bad
thing.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"JS (malicious top poster)" wrote...

Jan Verschuere

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:57:21

That's a bit of a fib... water could be seen running across the track there
during the pace laps, though nowhere near as deep as it appeared when Takagi
hit it. I agree it developed into a problem while they cleared up the
Blahblah/Herta accident (can't remember the other guy's name).

Those are going to be thin on the ground, IMO.

Agreed.

Jan.
=---

Simon Brow

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Simon Brow » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:31:11

To me the water looked just as bad when they first went green as when they
threw the red.  The only thing that changed is that drivers started changing
to slicks.

I reckon it was pretty obvious from the body language and tone of voice in
that interview that the race director knew he'd got it wrong.  It was a
defence but said like an apology.



Rafe McAulif

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:18:10

Well it's a pity they didn't stop the race after a lap or two, once it
was pretty obvious how bad it was. At least it would have been even
for all drivers. i guess hindsight is a wonderful thing :)

I feel sorry for all those who got screwed by the coverage, with
"network commitments" cutting the race. Here in Australia, we had to
watch the restart with coverage from a different network, so at least
we got the abbreviated version. Finally, a tape delayed race is a GOOD
thing :P

A good race in the end anyway, great result for BJ and Ganssi, looks
like BJ will hold onto his drive now I'd say.

Rafe Mc

Eldre

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Eldre » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:00:49



>Yeah, well you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I just think that the
>whole starting the race under yellow was a joke, they handled the whole
>thing poorly. My biggest complaint is that the course isn't new and there
>had been rain there before, they knew what was going to happen! They
>shouldn't have let them switch to slicks or they should actually certify
>every track they run at and fix what can go wrong. It would have fixed the
>whole Texas embarrassment as well. It's unprofessional behavior and it's
>happened twice this year.

If the teams want to change to slicks, that's their choice.  I'd hate to see an
official tell a team that they can't use a strategy they want.  I *do* think
that changing to slicks at that moment was dumb, though.  But I thought the
track was still wet all around the circuit, so there wouldn't be much point in
giving up rain tires.  I didn't realize until later that the track was DRY
except for that 50-70 foot span.  I'd blame THAT on the track.  Too bad they
couldn't have fixed that before it claimed 2 cars... :(

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

OT : CART , Live ! ;o)

by Eldre » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:52:43



>I feel sorry for all those who got screwed by the coverage, with
>"network commitments" cutting the race. Here in Australia, we had to
>watch the restart with coverage from a different network, so at least
>we got the abbreviated version. Finally, a tape delayed race is a GOOD
>thing :P

Damn - I thought they said it would be re-broadcast at 1am on ESPN.  So I set

Must have been on ESPN2, huh?
<grumble, grumble>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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