rec.autos.simulators

by **istof** » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:19:52

Hi,

Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a stupid
question some time ago about CART racing in the rain and got a few
(justified) riled folks irritated by my questions about wet racing on
ovals...

anyway, anybody want to comment on the mayhem yesterday at Portland?
The first 30 laps were chaos. I couldn't believe how hard it was for
those guys to keep the car under control. Shows you how F1 has
watered down things with all the driver aids :(

I never liked Paul Tracy that much and last night I was disappointed
in his pit stop antics. I know its raining and that the grip in the
pits was lousy, but *everybody* had to exercise a little bit more
caution. Poor Bruno Junqueira.

I watched the coverage on ESPN and the race ended midnight local time
for me. I don't know if there was any other interviews / stuff after
the race as I would like to hear more of the driver's comments.

Enjoyed Fittipaldi's performance, though. Also, does Castroneves have
the record for most pitstops in one race? Any other views on the
race?

Regards

by **Matt Lanze** » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:06:27

Worst bunch of ***I've seen in a long time, and I'm a huge CART fan
(Tracy fan, no less ;) ). As wide open as Portland is, they shouldn't have
had 75% of the full course cautions. This is an area where F1 is far
superior. Just let 'em race. If they spin off course and aren't in a
dangerous place, f*ck 'em.

Tracy boned-up big time. Hated to see it after his hard charging to get up
to P2 after starting 14th, but Bruno got the shaft, courtesy of Paul.
Papis drove smart (easy to do when you can see) and deserved the win.

I love watchin them race in the rain, but after Portland I hope the rest
of the season is dry!

Warlock!

> Hi,

> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a stupid
> question some time ago about CART racing in the rain and got a few
> (justified) riled folks irritated by my questions about wet racing on
> ovals...

> anyway, anybody want to comment on the mayhem yesterday at Portland?
> The first 30 laps were chaos. I couldn't believe how hard it was for
> those guys to keep the car under control. Shows you how F1 has
> watered down things with all the driver aids :(

> I never liked Paul Tracy that much and last night I was disappointed
> in his pit stop antics. I know its raining and that the grip in the
> pits was lousy, but *everybody* had to exercise a little bit more
> caution. Poor Bruno Junqueira.

> I watched the coverage on ESPN and the race ended midnight local time
> for me. I don't know if there was any other interviews / stuff after
> the race as I would like to hear more of the driver's comments.

> Enjoyed Fittipaldi's performance, though. Also, does Castroneves have
> the record for most pitstops in one race? Any other views on the
> race?

> Regards

by **John Pavlice** » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:06:06

What driver aids did F1 have in Malaysia? All they had was the semi-auto
gearbox. Traction control and launch control weren't back at that time.
Malaysia had a lot of spins, but the track was in far worse condition then
at Portland.

-Pav

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, it was written:

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:14:48

You can find more driver comments at the bottom of this page:
http://www.cart.com/
in the team news sections.
dave henrie

> Hi,

> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a (snip)

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:25:45

If you have windows media player, real player or quicktime you can view
some interesting footage shot after the race.(http://www.cart.com/) In the
mulimedia section they have several files called 'champ cam' where they
follow the race winner through the confusion after a race. The demands of
the local media, the track officials etc. Not for those who get seasick
tho...the handheld nature of the footage is very bouncy.
dave henrie

> Hi,

> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a stupid
> question some time ago about CART racing in the rain and got a few
> (justified) riled folks irritated by my questions about wet racing on
> ovals...

> anyway, anybody want to comment on the mayhem yesterday at Portland?
> The first 30 laps were chaos. I couldn't believe how hard it was for
> those guys to keep the car under control. Shows you how F1 has
> watered down things with all the driver aids :(

> I never liked Paul Tracy that much and last night I was disappointed
> in his pit stop antics. I know its raining and that the grip in the
> pits was lousy, but *everybody* had to exercise a little bit more
> caution. Poor Bruno Junqueira.

> I watched the coverage on ESPN and the race ended midnight local time
> for me. I don't know if there was any other interviews / stuff after
> the race as I would like to hear more of the driver's comments.

> Enjoyed Fittipaldi's performance, though. Also, does Castroneves have
> the record for most pitstops in one race? Any other views on the
> race?

> Regards

by **istof** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:53:49

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 07:06:27 -0500, Matt Lanzer

>Worst bunch of ***I've seen in a long time, and I'm a huge CART fan
>(Tracy fan, no less ;) ). As wide open as Portland is, they shouldn't have
>had 75% of the full course cautions. This is an area where F1 is far
>superior. Just let 'em race. If they spin off course and aren't in a
>dangerous place, f*ck 'em.

Hi,

I guess it was harder to race there than it loooked. Shift-R is sooo
much easier for me and I guess I have no idea what it was like for the
drivers. Not just the difficulty of the reduced grip / visibility
issues, but also the pressures of seeing the more experienced drivers
messing it up as well. My heart goes out to the guys who got
collected by others in the the accidents, Zanarda, Juncqueria,
Gugelmin, etc. The second half of the race was pretty entertaining
and worth staying up late to watch.

To reply to John's comment about Malaysia, etc. I take your point.
Possibly the F1 series provides more wet races on average than Cart
and the drivers run more laps on them? I can't say. I do enjoy the
mixed condition races a lot though. Gives some of the weaker teams a
bit more of a chance, at least.

Regards all
Regards all,
istoff

by **istof** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:30

> You can find more driver comments at the bottom of this page:
>http://www.cart.com/
>in the team news sections.
>dave henrie

>> Hi,

>> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a (snip)

thanks dh. will check that and the video as well.

regards
Regards all,
istoff

by **Robin Lor** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:10:11

control.

I was watching it last night thinking this, the cars looked a lot more
difficult than F1 cars have in much worse conditions - much more
"fishtaily".
I wonder could this be due to the fact they have turboed engines and there
is some lag before the power comes in - hence making it harder for a driver
to judge just how much power they are trying to put down? Any ideas?

--
Cheers,

Robin Lord - Trance DJ & Sim Racer.

http://www.oppositelock.co.uk

Nrburgring and Grand Prix Legends

by **cheem** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 05:45:36

Too much concrete+oil!

by **GraDe** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 05:58:34

I feel wet racing and US racing doesn't ix well.

To me it seems as though they can't handle it over there, but I'm not
suggesting they are bad drivers what I mean is that since most races are run
in such hot conditions a wet race seems to throw them off guard. Drivers
haven't enough practice on a wet track, teams haven't enough wet weather
data to set-up the cars right.... perhaps even tyres are not very suitable
as they might not get much development.... It could be any number of
factors.... including ultra smooth tracks and the tendency to have many many
variations to track surface over a short stretch of track...
In Europe it's just wet wet wet and we get lots of time to learn how to
drive in the wet, set up for the wet and so on.... it must count for
something.

Generally i feel tyres and track surface may be a major problem in CART when
rain falls.

> Hi,

> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a stupid
> question some time ago about CART racing in the rain and got a few
> (justified) riled folks irritated by my questions about wet racing on
> ovals...

> anyway, anybody want to comment on the mayhem yesterday at Portland?
> The first 30 laps were chaos. I couldn't believe how hard it was for
> those guys to keep the car under control. Shows you how F1 has
> watered down things with all the driver aids :(

> I never liked Paul Tracy that much and last night I was disappointed
> in his pit stop antics. I know its raining and that the grip in the
> pits was lousy, but *everybody* had to exercise a little bit more
> caution. Poor Bruno Junqueira.

> I watched the coverage on ESPN and the race ended midnight local time
> for me. I don't know if there was any other interviews / stuff after
> the race as I would like to hear more of the driver's comments.

> Enjoyed Fittipaldi's performance, though. Also, does Castroneves have
> the record for most pitstops in one race? Any other views on the
> race?

> Regards

by JM » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:51:32

Is it possibly a case of designing the cars to the most common set of
conditions? I don't know what the ratio is for ovals/road courses in CART,
but I'd think a team would use a chassis that was highly effective in the
most common conditions (dry ovals?) any other conditions would be a
compromise in the design, perhaps I'm suggesting that F1 cars by their
design handle better on road courses and in changeable weather, which is
therefore no critisism of the CART drivers. I don't follow CART, but some
of the names reeled off I recognise from F1, F3000, Sports Cars etc, and
those lads should certainly know how to drive in the wet.

F1 cars look like they have more downforce, but I don't know if that's true,
just that it looks like it.

I'd agree with the other poster that turbo'd cars might have a worse time of
it with the lag->snap on power.

cheers
John

by **Jesse Blac** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:50:38

I would think that Goodyear has a lot of experience developing for wet with
their years with F1...and I bet Firestone steals some of its brother's
research (Bridgestone) from F1 to develop their wet tires. I don't think
the tires are the specific problem. I think like JM said, it is about the
design of the cars. It is well known that F1 makes more downforce than
CART...and F1 cars are lighter...and like JM said, the turbo lag might be
hurting them on corner exit...but I also agree with you that the US tracks
aren't very good...even when it isn't racing. The other thing is that in
F1, if a car goes off, they hook up the crane and pull it to safety...so
those minor incidents aren't really noticed in F1...in CART, every little
run off is a full course caution for a few laps and so people notice every
minor slip up.

JB

>I feel wet racing and US racing doesn't ix well.

>To me it seems as though they can't handle it over there, but I'm not
>suggesting they are bad drivers what I mean is that since most races are
run
>in such hot conditions a wet race seems to throw them off guard. Drivers
>haven't enough practice on a wet track, teams haven't enough wet weather
>data to set-up the cars right.... perhaps even tyres are not very suitable
>as they might not get much development.... It could be any number of
>factors.... including ultra smooth tracks and the tendency to have many
many
>variations to track surface over a short stretch of track...
>In Europe it's just wet wet wet and we get lots of time to learn how to
>drive in the wet, set up for the wet and so on.... it must count for
>something.

>Generally i feel tyres and track surface may be a major problem in CART
when
>rain falls.

- Show quoted text -

by **Sean Higgin** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:20:19

I think part of the problem might be the TURBO kicking in when you're trying
to baby the throttle.

--

Sean Higgins

Redline Racing League
www.rrlnrs.com

Redline BGN Division
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/RRL/

> Hi,

> Say my first Wet Cart race in a looooong time. I posted a stupid
> question some time ago about CART racing in the rain and got a few
> (justified) riled folks irritated by my questions about wet racing on
> ovals...

> anyway, anybody want to comment on the mayhem yesterday at Portland?
> The first 30 laps were chaos. I couldn't believe how hard it was for
> those guys to keep the car under control. Shows you how F1 has
> watered down things with all the driver aids :(

> I never liked Paul Tracy that much and last night I was disappointed
> in his pit stop antics. I know its raining and that the grip in the
> pits was lousy, but *everybody* had to exercise a little bit more
> caution. Poor Bruno Junqueira.

> I watched the coverage on ESPN and the race ended midnight local time
> for me. I don't know if there was any other interviews / stuff after
> the race as I would like to hear more of the driver's comments.

> Enjoyed Fittipaldi's performance, though. Also, does Castroneves have
> the record for most pitstops in one race? Any other views on the
> race?

> Regards

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:02:22

Some advantages for F1 are warm tires and their hands are on the wheel at
all times.
Not to mention yellows themselves...they bunch everyone up in those
conditions and cool the tires down. Since everyone in CART is more
competitive (closer laptimes) than in F1 some stupid passing attempts will
happen resulting in accidents...oh yeah and that chicane causes ***
incidents in the dry...think about the wet.

Jon

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:04:41

Well even when he was in 3rd he was smart about it. He backed off and let
the Newman/Haas guys get a turn or 2 ahead of him and then he picked it up
and ran close to their laptimes w/ a fairly clear view ahead.

Jon

rec.autos.simulators

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