And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-)
Achim
And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-)
Achim
I would expect enthusiasts of sim racing to be enthusiasts of RL racing too. I
would also expect there to be examples of drivers good at both. Certainly GPL
"feels" the closest to RL and there should be some degree of benefit between the
two in terms of learning.
I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do very well.
Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens!
Tony
Gerry
that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver
checklist....
kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major
adjustment),
Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons just
like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology...
One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and no throttle
under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, or consistancy,
if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53% bias
setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two
pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be smooth
into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right
foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPL had
a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshift and
be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is the same as
GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot, you
heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch.....
Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if
automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real race
car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your
heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who find it
hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift is a
totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its
autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching for
the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver not doing
this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all over the
road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked like your
road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need to keep
reviing it and matching....
Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs autoclutch
thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is
spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue that
while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch would
be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be fine
as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! this is
a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive never
bothered to explain properly....
I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes
along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic..
Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the throttle
under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as using
15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...I even
had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I
wasnt doing it.
> <SNIP>
> And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)
> > cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit as
is....I
> > use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....there
the
> > ***y cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :)....
> Well I refuse to drive in such a lame manner. But that's not to say I
> haven't tried this *** technique. I was loads faster with it of course,
> but I'll stick to actlabs shifter and heel & toe, thank_you_very_much.
all this technique does as with its RL counterpart is stop transmission drag
from the drive wheels on corner entry and braking....just as when entering
in quick turn and downshifting in a road car ill make sure the revs are
300rpm higher than tha speed them will be when I reengaged the drive, this
means theres no transition between drive and clutched and no unsettling....
now take the same bend allow the revs to drop 2000rpm lower than the drive
rpm and youll spin of the road backwards....these two techniques are
identical in GPL and RL only in GPL its easier to do as there a total lack
of need for clutch and while the autoclutch is engaged you just rev its
heart out and get the revs right.....thats half the reasonn aliens are so
quick in GPL, it did take about a year for people to pickup up on this RL
techniques and start using it to great effect in GPL...JonDavies is a
classic example or rev matching gone mad...hes be smooth as silk in a race
car....
> that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver
> checklist....
> kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major
> adjustment),
> Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons
just
> like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology...
> One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and no
throttle
> under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, or
consistancy,
> if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53%
bias
> setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two
> pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be smooth
> into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right
> foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPL
had
> a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshift
and
> be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is the same
as
> GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot,
you
> heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch.....
> Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if
> automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real race
> car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your
> heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who find it
> hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift is a
> totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its
> autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching
for
> the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver not doing
> this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all over
the
> road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked like
your
> road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need to keep
> reviing it and matching....
> Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs
autoclutch
> thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is
> spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue
that
> while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch would
> be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be fine
> as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! this
is
> a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive
never
> bothered to explain properly....
> I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes
> along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic..
> Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the throttle
> under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as
using
> 15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...I
even
> had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I
> wasnt doing it.
> > <SNIP>
> > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)
I've run a 3:20 at Spa that's not shown on that list. But, I've never been
able to get a handle on Rouen. I usually spell it "Ruin"...<g>
Eldred
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N2002 Rank:+22.329
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Eldred
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Eldred
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Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
> > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more
> > league races without an off track than ive not finished in.....
> > im a racer idoit!
> Hot-lapper...
> "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..."
> Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever
> seen (next to the ***we see out of Wilshe)...
> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> RASCAR Roster
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================
<SNIP>
So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you
haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try
again.
Thinking more, a compare a bike racer on a slipper clutch with a GPL
driver....very similar inputs...infact GPLs limit in clutch operations is
VERY much like a motorbike slipperclutch, and infact the two techniques are
indentical...
GPL clutch = slipperclutch style....
> all this technique does as with its RL counterpart is stop transmission
drag
> from the drive wheels on corner entry and braking....just as when entering
> in quick turn and downshifting in a road car ill make sure the revs are
> 300rpm higher than tha speed them will be when I reengaged the drive, this
> means theres no transition between drive and clutched and no
unsettling....
> now take the same bend allow the revs to drop 2000rpm lower than the drive
> rpm and youll spin of the road backwards....these two techniques are
> identical in GPL and RL only in GPL its easier to do as there a total lack
> of need for clutch and while the autoclutch is engaged you just rev its
> heart out and get the revs right.....thats half the reasonn aliens are so
> quick in GPL, it did take about a year for people to pickup up on this RL
> techniques and start using it to great effect in GPL...JonDavies is a
> classic example or rev matching gone mad...hes be smooth as silk in a race
> car....
> > One could argue that exploiting the loopholes is a big part of
motorsport
> or
> > the so called "desire to succeed"....maximising everything available
into
> > helping one to win, adapting to even unrealistic techniques in order to
be
> > faster...
> > that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver
> > checklist....
> > kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major
> > adjustment),
> > Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons
> just
> > like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology...
> > One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and no
> throttle
> > under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, or
> consistancy,
> > if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53%
> bias
> > setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two
> > pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be
smooth
> > into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right
> > foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPL
> had
> > a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshift
> and
> > be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is the
same
> as
> > GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot,
> you
> > heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch.....
> > Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if
> > automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real
race
> > car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your
> > heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who find
it
> > hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift is
a
> > totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its
> > autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching
> for
> > the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver not
doing
> > this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all over
> the
> > road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked like
> your
> > road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need to
keep
> > reviing it and matching....
> > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs
> autoclutch
> > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is
> > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue
> that
> > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch
would
> > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be
fine
> > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!
this
> is
> > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive
> never
> > bothered to explain properly....
> > I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes
> > along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic..
> > Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the
throttle
> > under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as
> using
> > 15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...I
> even
> > had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I
> > wasnt doing it.
> > > <SNIP>
> > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)
There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to
explain in laymens terms....
As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs
clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch
> > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs
autoclutch
> > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is
> > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue
that
> > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch
would
> > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be
fine
> > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!
this is
> > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive
never
> > bothered to explain properly....
> <SNIP>
> So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you
> haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try
> again.
I were to use the power all the time, I rocket forward each time between
shifts when the clutch was reengaged before the next shift :)
This an entirely proper racing technique and exactly what your doing heel
and toeing....we all have an autoclutch in GPL....and if you use a clutch
for all but starts its pointless...and because the clutch is poinltess so is
heel and toe in THIS game...as its faster to use both feet, if GPL had a
clutch and required its use id use it....
Another fact is alot of racers wont even use a clutch in a crash box, this
again means the two feet technique like a go-kart is the better....
you might not say that after right foot braker out qualled schumacher today
again....mainly cause the ferrari is evilly good on the brakes with
tremendous rear traction....in 2000/2001 this wasnt the case as the ferrari
was a bit twitchy this suited the dual pedal schumacher more IMO as his
ability to use both at once made the rear more stable, this year rubens has
a car even his inferior technique can win the day over one lap.....
> There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to
> explain in laymens terms....
> As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs
> clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch
> > <SNIP>
> > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs
> autoclutch
> > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use
is
> > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake
issue
> that
> > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch
> would
> > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be
> fine
> > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!
> this is
> > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive
> never
> > > bothered to explain properly....
> > <SNIP>
> > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you
> > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try
> > again.
I first raced a guy called Allan Scott, this was a total eye opener, racing
monza, id hear this car behind and it was scotty, revving the blox of it
down the box using both feet....Almost scared you off the road ... At this
point most were, but Allan unbknown to me was an ex GP bike racer....here we
have the perfect example of how during early 2000 everyone seemed to adopt
allans style, as a real racer Allan taught everyone something, at first it
was like listening to something so new, he was doing something most were
sure of, it was a big talking point at the time. But as an ex racer, allan
had used the slipperclutch technique in GPL and it worked perfectly, from
that day on everyone started doing it at monza, then it grew...
Maybe this technique isnt relevant to the 60;s GP car, but its entirely
revelant and used as a style...in more than just bikes....
Glad we had this technique debate I hadnt really made the connection between
Scotty and the reving technique....
> I were to use the power all the time, I rocket forward each time between
> shifts when the clutch was reengaged before the next shift :)
> This an entirely proper racing technique and exactly what your doing heel
> and toeing....we all have an autoclutch in GPL....and if you use a clutch
> for all but starts its pointless...and because the clutch is poinltess so
is
> heel and toe in THIS game...as its faster to use both feet, if GPL had a
> clutch and required its use id use it....
> Another fact is alot of racers wont even use a clutch in a crash box, this
> again means the two feet technique like a go-kart is the better....
> you might not say that after right foot braker out qualled schumacher
today
> again....mainly cause the ferrari is evilly good on the brakes with
> tremendous rear traction....in 2000/2001 this wasnt the case as the
ferrari
> was a bit twitchy this suited the dual pedal schumacher more IMO as his
> ability to use both at once made the rear more stable, this year rubens
has
> a car even his inferior technique can win the day over one lap.....
> > I'd buy a racing techniques book and read it...
> > There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to
> > explain in laymens terms....
> > As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs
> > clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch
> > > <SNIP>
> > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs
> > autoclutch
> > > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we
use
> is
> > > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake
> issue
> > that
> > > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch
> > would
> > > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would
be
> > fine
> > > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!
> > this is
> > > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that
ive
> > never
> > > > bothered to explain properly....
> > > <SNIP>
> > > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see
you
> > > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try
> > > again.