rec.autos.simulators

   The world is filled with mysteries, and one of the
most profound, in my mind, is why anyone with two arms
who uses a steering wheel in a driving sim would want
to look over that equipment and see, on the screen,
two more arms and another steering wheel moving in a
jerky approximation of input for the sim.  

   I believe F1-2000 gave us the option to have a
non-moving wheel, with it's LCD, in our***pits.  

   I don't see this option in F1 2001, am I missing
something?  

   On another issue, I've read that the second patch
is a problem and should not be applied.  Is this the
general opinion, or one person's experience?  

   I've just installed this sim, I'll look to Deja
for guidance, but I'll probably have more questions.  

                                             Thanks
                                             Larry

In my experience the wheel on the screen is a better indicator of what the
game thinks you're doing than the actual wheel in your hands.  Not everyone  
has their "real wheel" in line of sight, and it's another piece of eye
candy on the screen.

Having said that, I switch the screen wheel off in Nascar4/2002, and leave
it on in GPL/F12001. I suppose that is pretty strange :o)

cheers
John

Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight to my
monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of where
the game things your are. Of course now that I have my new MOMO wheel maybe
I won't have to worry about all that slop now. Well at least for awhile
anyway.

MadDAWG

There is an option in one of the .INI files to remove it.  Can't remember
how at the moment.

But, bit gets rid of the LCD, so you get no feedback at all.  I'd just like
to keep the wheel still, but I don't think you can do it.

You can remove teh wheel in the FIA GT Mod and you still get the LCD and
that works great.

James

PAMhotmail.com> writes

I don't understand this statement.  All it shows is how far the wheel
onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that
turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the
learning process in any way.

So, as far as I can tell, instead of learning how much your own steering
wheel turns have an affect on the fronts when you turn the wheel, and
thus becoming more intuitive as to how much you need to turn your wheel
to get the appropriate amount of turn, you have to watch the onscreen
steering wheel and guage from that how much the car is likely to turn in
and then adjust your own steering inputs accordingly (a duel
input/output requirement which seems less intuitive and possibly takes
your eyes away from other more important hazards on track) .  No
improved feedback as far as I can tell, just an extra distraction.  Or
am I missing something?

So, for me, as I become more adept at the sim, I 'know' how much I need
to turn the steering wheel in order to produce the correct amount of
turn and it becomes more automatic (I don't have to think about it, I
just do it).  How does having the onscreen wheel improve on that?
Surely you're just trying to do the same, except that you are trying to
use the onscreen wheel to give you feedback on how much the car is
likely to turn when you turn your physical wheel.  So you're looking at
your onscreen wheel and making adjustments based upon the feedback you
get from that instead of what the car is doing on the road.  I see no
added help there.

--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

As I said my game controller is no where near my line of site to my monitor,
so I don't see my real wheel at all. I disagree with "it doesn't give any
indication of how much that turn has an affect on your fronts". It has as
much correlation as your real wheel does. Full lock right is full lock
right. Sure you may move your real wheel 15 degrees and have the screen
wheel only move 10 degree, but if your only seeing on of them it doesn't
really matter. You turn your hands until the screen wheel reaches your point
of reference . I'm sure anyone that's been at this for some time has
experienced a spiking game port so actually seeing how the game is
interrupting your inputs is a plus.

MadDAWG

It is a very useful debugging tool as well as the other reasons
mentioned.

I like the wheel and arms a lot.

---
Bill Ryder

I'm not arguing with either point here, but when I'm driving a real car, whether it is our van or Jeep, I don't "see" the steering wheel since I'm looking at the road, other vehicles, pedestrians, etc., while glancing in my mirrors every few seconds.  I don't depend on a visual sighting of the position of the steering wheel to make a decision of angle approaching a turn.  It is a calculation of my sight of the objective, the realization of how fast I feel I'm approaching, and "knowing" the vehicle I'm driving and its reactions to situations.  In PC sims, we don't have the "seat of the pants" feeling for the vehicle for either acceleration/deceleration or G-forces.  Despite force feedback, we really only see the majority of reactions of the vehicle (whatever view is used) and don't actually feel them as you would with forces putting pressure on your restraint belts.
--
Chris H.

Indeed it can be, as was mentioned by madDAWG in another post, and the
only time I would probably want to make use of it otherwise it's just a
distraction I could do without.

Like Chris H said, all I want to do is allow as much concentration on
the road and not anywhere else and so I don't even have to think about
what my hands are doing on the wheel and certainly don't want to be
wasting that focus by looking at an onscreen representation.
Intuitively, I know by how much I need to turn my wheel in order to
produce the correct response in whichever game I'm playing.  It's just a
personal thing, but that onscreen wheel just ain't gonna help in any way
to improve on that.

Anyway, when it comes down to it, it's what each person feels
comfortable with.  Was just interested in people's personal experiences
and opinions. :)
--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

Onscreen wheels are a distraction that I would rather do without.  I
literally swear at my monitor everytime I crash in Rally Trophy
because I was distracted by the big moving round thing on my screen
instead of concentrating on the road.
I wouldn't even consider them useful for calibrating your wheel.

Jason