rec.autos.simulators

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Ever get the impression Bart Spencer is obsessed with Microsoft?

Paul --

Yes, I'm an unmedicated obsessive-compulsive, and completely biased
against Microsoft...what else could explain my asking the same question
over and over? Certainly MS/TRI has been *completely* responsive to the
same question from everyone else, right?

BTW, I can see by your message header that you're just an objective
seeker after truth:

<<Subject: Bart: get therapy buddy!
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:46:01 GMT

Organization: Microsoft Corp.>>

Say...WHAT was the name of that organization again? Must be a
coincidence...

So, since you brought it up, and you are, apparently, somehow connected
with MS, maybe you can tell us: have we seen the final patch to CPR v1,
or are you guys actually going to make an attempt at fixing the rest of
it?

I'm looking for my lithium right now...

Bart

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Dean has posted on the Apex site that there will be continued support and
> there will be a CPR2.

Yes, he has, and I've even read it. It doesn't quite answer the
question, though, does it? I would say a significant (to say the least)
majority of CPR players on this NG are of the opinion that Build 90 did
not, by a long shot, make CPR work as advertised these many moons by MS.

I could be wrong, according to mysterious Microsoft employee "PaulP"...

Bart

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Dean has posted on the Apex site that there will be continued support and
> there will be a CPR2.

Yes, he has, and I've even read it. It doesn't quite answer the
question, though, does it? I would say a significant (to say the least)
majority of CPR players on this NG are of the opinion that Build 90 did
not, by a long shot, make CPR work as advertised these many moons by MS.

I could be wrong, according to mysterious Microsoft employee "PaulP"...

Bart

by **Mikes Design** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Hi Bart,
I dont know. Like I told Byron on the Apex site this morning, I am just
taking a few months off from my construction company. I just thought doing
some sim racing would be nice. I dont know what the original claims that MS
made even were. All I know is this, I am not finding reading the NG to be a
good way to relax. The general lack of tolerance for anyone to like
something that the "majority" deems unworthy is well.... depressing to say
the least. Good luck to you folks I hope you find what your looking for in
a sim. I really mean that in the best of ways. Cya, Mike

> > Dean has posted on the Apex site that there will be continued support
and
> > there will be a CPR2.

> Yes, he has, and I've even read it. It doesn't quite answer the
> question, though, does it? I would say a significant (to say the least)
> majority of CPR players on this NG are of the opinion that Build 90 did
> not, by a long shot, make CPR work as advertised these many moons by MS.

> I could be wrong, according to mysterious Microsoft employee "PaulP"...

> Bart

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

<<He seems to miss MS the most - and wasn't he one of the people
who originally celebrated their departure from ras?>>

By the by -- I didn't "celebrate" Microsoft's departure (though I like
the disingenuous way you use the third-person in referring to your own
organization); I celebrated the departure of a "representative" of MS
who was completely unprofessional in his official capacity.

His replacement, the long-lamented John Browne, made a big noise coming
in (essentially saying exactly what you've said: anyone who doesn't
worship the fabulousness of CPR is anti-Microsoft, and therefore
entirely dismissable), talking about how much he valued the NG's input,
and how he was here to listen, and how MS was going to support CPR 'til
the end of time, and how his door was always open... but, strangely, he
hasn't made peep one since that last message.

Other than poor old Dean Lester's announcement of the latest (Last? Who
knows? Microsoft does...) patch to CPR v1, there has been no detectable
MS presence in the NG -- excepting this potshot at my untherapized and
obviously mentally-unbalanced attempts to get MS to just answer one
simple question -- a question that ONLY MS can answer, and a question
that many others have asked and asked again to no avail whatsoever: Is
the latest patch announced by Dean Lester the last patch of CPR before
MS crows to the world again about the "greatest racing sim EVER
produced" and drops CPR v2 (with a generous update offer to those
saddled with the infirm version 1, I'm SO sure) onto the market?

Such a simple question. Such a huge evasion.

Bart "call me crazy" Brown

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> >LOL!!
> >Byron, *OF COURSE* it's "opinionated"!!
> >Every "I like/don't like" post here *is* opinionated!! :-)

> >I couldn't think of anything more boring than watching a 1.5 hour replay
> >of a computer game/sim. Good Lord.....you do that to 'wind
> >down'????!!!!

> I just finished a 200 lapper at Martinsville on NROS last night and my
> machine has the entire replay. Do I watch the whole thing? Nope, but
> I can fast forward and fast backward to see certain highlights, close
> encounters, great passes, etc. And if I see something I really like,
> I can clip it and save it, then delete the big replay file. So yeah,
> I like full race replays.

Exactly. It can also be very useful when practicing in traffic to see
exactly how your car is aligned relative to the AI - something that the
replays can give suprising evidence as to just how unsafe your safe
overtaking manouvers are for eg :)

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> > The type of fish tailing refered to is not a 90deg sideways thing.
> >We're talking 20deg off pointing straight ahead max.

> OK, that clarifies things. I agree, that is realistic. But it's also
> about the level that is achievable with GP2, so why is it an issue?

> Maybe part of the problem is terminology. To me 'fish tailing' is what
> you see in car chases at the movies <g> An F1 car never gets that far out
> of shape without spinning due to the loss of aerodynamic downforce. It's
> when people start claiming that it is realistic to catch ridiculous
> errors that I get annoyed. If people want 'fun' driving models (e.g. GP2
> with OL) then that's fine, but they're kidding themselves if they
> consider it realistic.

> Cheers,
> Richard

Here's exactly what I mean. Sometimes when I come out of a corner in
2nd gear and get on the gas a little early I get the back coming out a
little. Doing this in ICR2 say, I would give it a good solid flick back
the other way and that's that. In F1RS this "solid flick" will
overcorrect the car and doing this again will overcorrect the car, etc
and thus what I refer to as "fishtailing". I think that when anyone
experiences this in F1RS that you'll agree it is very realistic. Maybe
some of you have better touch with the wheel than me and you'll never
know :) Probably one of the reasons I noticed this is because of the
habbits one can afford with ICR2.

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Overall I'd say you're right, it absolutely creams GP2 in the graphics
> and frame-ratedept. I score it far more closely than you in terms of
> driving though, with GP2 a bit ahead on the overall experience. GP2
> also wins out in areas like sound and setup. Overall F1RS is better I
> think, but purely from a driving viewpoint I still prefer GP2.

> Cheers!
> John

I agree that the sound is a big disappointment for me too. Not the
actual sound but the way it is on/off. This does not allow you to be as
accurate with the throttle :((((

by **Richard Walk** » Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Here's exactly what I mean. Sometimes when I come out of a corner in
>2nd gear and get on the gas a little early I get the back coming out a
>little. Doing this in ICR2 say, I would give it a good solid flick back
>the other way and that's that. In F1RS this "solid flick" will
>overcorrect the car and doing this again will overcorrect the car, etc
>and thus what I refer to as "fishtailing". I think that when anyone
>experiences this in F1RS that you'll agree it is very realistic. Maybe
>some of you have better touch with the wheel than me and you'll never
>know :) Probably one of the reasons I noticed this is because of the
>habbits one can afford with ICR2.

It's one of the habits that you definitely cannot afford in GP2, so maybe
it's just that I've already learnt the lesson and so haven't really come
across it in F1RS <g>

Cheers,
Richard

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Dean has posted on the Apex site that there will be continued support and
> there will be a CPR2.

Yes, but it looks like he may have meant that CPR 2 is the
continued support - or the track editor. A very vague and terrifying
message it is! If the first sentence I wrote is true then I can only say
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what a joke!"

by **Richard Walk** » Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Exactly. It can also be very useful when practicing in traffic to see
>exactly how your car is aligned relative to the AI - something that the
>replays can give suprising evidence as to just how unsafe your safe
>overtaking manouvers are for eg :)

I would say that is probably the single most useful aspect of replays. I
hate to think how many times I thought I got cut off by the AI in N2 only
for the replay very clearly show that I hadn't held my line. Without
replays I would still be wrecking most races ;-)

Cheers,
Richard

by **Rob Simmo** » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Richard,
> Before you start a session of F1RS, do what I do: uncork a bottle of
> (French) Champagne, raise your (filled) glass in the direction of Paris
> and hum several bars of "La Marseilles"!!

All Champagne is French. It is the type of sparkling wine produced in and
around the
Champagne region in France using specific winemaking techniques -
fermenting and
bottling the wine and then adding a little extra sugar and yeast to the
individual bottles.
The yeast ferments the excess sugar, yielding bubbles and increasing the
yeasty flavor of
the wine. The bottles are then tilted downwards and the dead yeast settles
in the neck of
the bottle, which is then frozen and removed and the bottle is then
recorked, shipped, and sold.

by **Byron Forbe** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> Hi Bart,
> I dont know. Like I told Byron on the Apex site this morning, I am just
> taking a few months off from my construction company. I just thought doing
> some sim racing would be nice. I dont know what the original claims that MS
> made even were. All I know is this, I am not finding reading the NG to be a
> good way to relax. The general lack of tolerance for anyone to like
> something that the "majority" deems unworthy is well.... depressing to say
> the least. Good luck to you folks I hope you find what your looking for in
> a sim. I really mean that in the best of ways. Cya, Mike

Are you working for MS on your break Mike?

by **Mikes Design** » Sun, 01 Feb 1998 04:00:00

Hehe hi Byron,
This is so odd that you always bring up posts that I
put up over a week ago? And to answer your question no like I said in this
very post ( see below) I own a construction company. Hence the name Mikes
Designs get it hehe. It would be fun to work for a computer company I
suppose. But I bet I make way more money than I would at a computer;-) You
know Byron in spite of our little spats I enjoy your posts they are kinda
odd but interesting. Feel free to E-mail me direct anytime while I am on
break here all I do is play at these sims and do the knee draggin stuff.
Aloha, Mike

> > Hi Bart,
> > I dont know. Like I told Byron on the Apex site this morning, I am just
> > taking a few months off from my construction company. I just thought
doing
> > some sim racing would be nice. I dont know what the original claims
that MS
> > made even were. All I know is this, I am not finding reading the NG to
be a
> > good way to relax. The general lack of tolerance for anyone to like
> > something that the "majority" deems unworthy is well.... depressing to
say
> > the least. Good luck to you folks I hope you find what your looking for
in
> > a sim. I really mean that in the best of ways. Cya, Mike

> Are you working for MS on your break Mike?

by **Mikes Design** » Sun, 01 Feb 1998 04:00:00

Hi Byron,
Knee draggin refers to Sport Bike/ Superbike riding. I have
raced Motorcycles most of my life. Everything from MX, Enduro, TT, and Flat
Tack. Now that I am getting old <ggg> all my kidneys can handle is the road
race type bikes. Knee draggin is what you do through the turns. You have
probably seen pictures of this maybe lets see your in Australia right? Ever
get a chance check out the Super Bikes at Phillip Island. Ever hear of Troy
Corser he was hot in Super Bikes! I have not been following this year much
as I have been too busy with work but he went on to race GP bikes and last
time I checked well he was still getting used to it but I bet he will do
ok. Then of course you have Mick Doohan also from Australia in GP and he is
AWESOME!!!! Hehe Cya, Mike

Feel free to E-mail me direct anytime while I am on

rec.autos.simulators

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