rec.autos.simulators

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

No I don't want you to say that at all, unless you mean it. I am just
questioning how you can possibly come to some of those
conclusions. It must be that I don't know enough about F1
racing and the cars. For that I am greatful.

I agree completely. But why do you think things are not as you expected?
Is it from being used to GP2? At least I could understand that :-) I'm
affraid I the bad things you guys mentioned about F1RS came across
as a troll from my point of view. I just hope Randy's problem isn't that
he is driving the F1RS car like a stock car :-)

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

I must say that I don't recall ever seeing this in F1, and in more
than 10 years there's only once race I didn't watch right through
(Imola '94). I've seen cars have lurid slides (Berger in Monaco last
year, Alesi at Hockenheim two years ago, Schumacher in Argentina, that
sort of thing), but I've never seen "fishtailing" as you would see it
on a Saturday night with guys drag-racing their cars. That in itself
proves nothing though, as the drivers wouldn't do it regardless of
whether the cars could - if your wheels are spinning you are not
getting the best traction.

Not necessarily, lifting off while countersteering will cause the same
loss of grip at the rear. I made the mistake of doing this this in a
BMW 328i convertible that I was test driving and nearly gave myself a
heart attack :)  I didn't really want to buy it, and taking it back
sadly bent would have been tough to explain :)

Cheers!
John

I agree. This is especially true with an on-line race (NROS) where you
can relive those hair-raising moments, the sad times, the victories :)

Cheers!
John

Hi Rik,

over on f1racingsim, a guy who has apparently driven a real Simtek a few
years ago says that he feels F1RS is doing a pretty good job - more
realistic WRT driving physics than GP2.

I must admit that while I think that GP2 two _feels_ more realistic, I also
think that the driving model of F1RS is more detailed, more like Papy's
ICR2. F1RS nicely modely the front axle stuff. Maybe the car is wobbling too
much (like ICR2). I also _feel_ more realistic in GP2, but my brain tells me
that the F1RS driving model is more detailed - and hence probably also more
realistic.

As for Randy, saying that he's a Papy beta tester hints at some slight bias
he might be having. I remember his comments on GP2 when that came out (I had
some long discussions with him :-) and he didn't seem to like it at all.
Although today we all merrily agree that GP2 was _the_ big thriller of it's
time...

Achim

    I think I agree with a lot of this. As far as GP2 goes it was way to
harsh with ripple strips and the back end coming out so suddenly seemed
a little over exaggerated. Perhaps being accustomed to GP2 being this
way makes F1RS feel easy in comparison. And in F1RS's favour it can fish
tail and seems right over the ripple strips. As far as AI goes - I'm not
that far into it yet and have a heavy ICR2 schedule :)

LOL!!
Byron, *OF COURSE* it's "opinionated"!!
Every "I like/don't like" post here *is* opinionated!! :-)

I couldn't think of anything more boring than watching a 1.5 hour replay
of a computer game/sim.  Good Lord.....you do that to 'wind
down'????!!!!

--
Bruce.
(At home)

Cheers,
Richard

Maybe part of the problem is terminology. To me 'fish tailing' is what
you see in car chases at the movies <g> An F1 car never gets that far out
of shape without spinning due to the loss of aerodynamic downforce. It's
when people start claiming that it is realistic to catch ridiculous
errors that I get annoyed. If people want 'fun' driving models (e.g. GP2
with OL) then that's fine, but they're kidding themselves if they
consider it realistic.

Cheers,
Richard

Cheers,
Richard

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:20:26 +1100, Bruce Kennewell

But to most sim drivers, 'ten-tenths' means that he expects to make
several serious mistakes during the course of a race.

But I *do* have a car that is setup to lap Spa at good speeds. If it is
too stable through Eau Rouge then why is the setup at fault? Isn't there
just the slightest chance that the driving model may be less than
perfect?

Seriously, have you found a way to get F1RS to automatically remember
your setup from one session to the other without having to remember to
save it and then load it (yes, I do know how to do it that way <g>)?
Every other sim has this ability and unless I'm being really dense I
haven't found it in F1RS and it would appear that many others haven't
either. I am sure that we would all be very grateful for your input.

Cheers,
Richard

Careful <g>

To be honest, I always thought GP2 was too harshly judged by many in
these two areas.

FIA safety regulations have considerably changed the height and nature of
kerbs since the 94 season. For instance, the GP2 kerbs at the chicanes in
Imola are roughly the same height as they used to be. A contributing
factor to people's expectations is that GP2's driving model is too
forgiving in slower corners (yes, it is not perfect <g>) which means that
it is possible to take chicanes at unrealistically high speeds without
making use of the kerbs. Trying to use the kerbs at those speeds then
becomes impossible. But slow down to real 1994 speeds and the kerbs can
be used. Probably not enough, but the situation isn't as bad as some make
out.

As for the back end, it *is* possible to drive at decent speeds in race
trim and make it through a whole race without spinning. But GP2's
feedback is very different to that from ICR2 or F1RS. It's all about
learning to anticipate rather than react. A high frame rate is also
essential though, which isn't exactly GP2's strong point <g>

Driving F1RS does demonstrate areas where GP2's model is far from
perfect. For instance it does 'stick' though the corners too much.
Strange really, but ICR2 never made me feel that GP2 got it wrong, but
F1RS - which I would classify being somewhere between GP2 & ICR2 in terms
of 'feel' - does make me think so. Maybe ICR2 & GP2 are too near the ends
of the driving model spectrum?

Cheers,
Richard