rec.autos.simulators

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:57:06 +1100, Bruce Kennewell

I think I'm going to have to start posting a sim timeline FAQ.... <g>

Cheers,
Richard

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:51:09 +1100, Bruce Kennewell

I'm in two minds over F1RS's driving model. At Monaco it is a real blast,
and in general is great fun at slow corners - a real challenge. But it
definitely seems to over do aerodynamic grip at the expense of mechanical
grip. All the high speed corners in F1RS are too easy and no challenge at
all and just leave me cold :(

Overall, F1RS is - for my style of driving at least - much less of a
challenge than GP2.

No, they're not great, but still more use than F1RS which seems very
inconsistent in what it records, doesn't tell you which car you're
viewing (unless I've missed something obvious), has no sound, etc.

A Papy style replay - but *with* a driver's eye view - would be the best
option.

GP2 is certainly a lot better than F1RS in this area. At least it
remembers what your last choices were! There's no significant delay
getting from garage to track either.

N2 may have the best menu, but it too is far from perfect. If I nip into
the garage to alter the car's setup whilst practicing then the whole
practice session starts again. Why don't the AI keep going? If I want to
test my setup in traffic then it can take several laps for the AI to get
out of the pits and up to speed :(

Cheers,
Richard

Cheers,
Richard

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:09:24 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

*Watch* those F1 cars when they get out of shape. Now ask someone who
isn't used to F1 and they will probably say "I never saw it get out of
shape". F1 cars simple do *not* fishtail all over the place unless the
driver is deliberately trying to do so at relatively slow speeds.

GP2 perfectly simulated the way that a F1 car can be caught if you
anticipate the car's actions but loses all grip once it actually starts
spinning.

In this respect, F1RS is like GP2 with OL on - too easy and not realistic
:(

An important first for F1RS. But not something to beat GP2 over the head
with!

Cheers,
Richard

So this means that you are getting pole positions and blowing
away the field, and winning championships after championships?

Against the EXPERT level?

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Congrats to you all.

I think it also varies with the weather. You are playing with variable
weather, right? It is little things like this that make F1RS the only choice
at the moment.

Hmm...

I get the opposite impression. I guess not being a real race driver, all
of this is beyond me. BTW, what do you think Jean Alesi, H. Harold
Frentzen and Jean Christophe Buillon and those Renault engineers
were doing with the game? I'm affraid to say that if all those fellas
think F1RS is right, and it seems right to me personally when I play
the game, I don't care what you 3 hero's think :-)

To you GP2 drives more realisticly. And I think it is great.

It must be very painful to drive around and obsess about the poor
driving model. Every time you go into a turn it is in the back of your
mmind how it isn't right. I tried driving around the Montreal circuit
and see why Randy did not get a sense of speed in F1RS. I thought
maybe I was seeing it wrong. I finially figured he wasn't seeing the
same thing on his screen that I was seeing on mine. I guess we will
have to agree to disagree.

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Now you have it! Gotta hand it to you that driving experience is
really helping you out here.

I see. In general I find that F1RS and GP2 both simulate swaping ends
about the same. I have swapped ends in F1RS with no hope of recovery.
I have also lost traction while accelerating fish tailed, got off the gas
and recovered as I would expect it really happens. In GP2 you will
sawp ends more times than not, but I have saved some.

I agree. I think the changing weather conditions and shadows (which change
during a race/session) is more appropriate to use for that.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

No mean feat.  I actually clocked a few F1SA competitive times against
Aida with GP2 no aids.  But boy was it work!!  The problem was I could
do it in hotlapping, but in a race, trying to actually get through
traffic, the opposite lock help ON was necessary for me to stay
competitive through a long race.

With F1RS, I agree 100% on the mechanical grip.  I'd say 90% of my
gripes with the driving model are what happens in slow corners and
hairpins.  I just don't feel like I'm driving a high-performance car
around them.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice that.

I may have to buy a Monster 3D to see if it really is the elixer for
F1RS that people claim it is.  Its hard for me to imagine, since I'm
running a P300 with a Riva board and the frame rate is pretty much
fluid with everything turned on, but I'm wondering if Ubi might have
'crippled' the D3D version by not allowing the tire details to be on
etc (at least judging from what Alison has told me).  But my
observations about the physics model in F1RS closely mimic those of
yours and John's.  I like it.  I don't love it.  Not yet.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Well....it's all subjective, isn't it and, after all, merely a game :-)

--
Bruce.
(At home)

I don't think that these people are implying that "GP2 is tripe", simply
that "The King is dead, long live the King"!

GP2 was the epitome of F1 simulations.....*was*.  The role has now, in a
lot of opinions, been usurped by F1RS.  Perhaps within another 12-24
months there will be another to come along and take the crown. Let's
hope so otherwise the technology will have stagnated.
I doted on GP1....it had a permanent home on my computer(s).  Then GP2
came along and knocked it off the pedestal, but I (and oodles of others)
didn't deride GP1.  It had simply been overtaken by a "better" product.

That's the way things are and will forever be.

--
Bruce.
(At home)

Can we possibly arrange a race between the two of you? My money is on
Richard...and I'll give odds.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

--
F1RS, the ONLY choice???  Gee, you really are a devoted little puppy
aren't you.  Only ONE 3D board, only ONE racing sim.  I guess there's
"the one" and then there's crap, right?

Is *this* the best you could come up with?  Well, Greg.  Lets see.
Jacques Villeneuve used GP2 to prepare for his first trip to Spa and
won pole, whereas he could only qualify 18th in the game.  Jordan
drivers actually were using the Psygnosis model of Jerez to prepare
their drivers for it, and spent a great deal of time helping Psygnosis
tweak THEIR driving model, and that's for the Playstation.  Then you
have guys like Mark Blundell and Mauricio Gugelmin (who won CART races
last year) testifying for the CPR physics model, oh and a bunch of
guys from the Indy Racing League provided a great deal of feedback on
the IRL sim.  We obviously all have different opinions about those
games REGARDLESS of what big names spent time critiquing them, so why
should F1RS be any different?  Oh yes.  I forgot.  It's "THE ONE".

Well, if you're that easy, then there's a lot of other games out there
that you should look into, because almost every one has had driver
input into the driving model.

Wow.  Leaving room for two opinions?  This is a big step forward for
you, Greg!

Try it in GP2 and ensure that your occupancy is <=100% in the process
and tell me you don't think GP2 feels faster.

There's a first for everything.  

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

From the time that the very first .AVI of the pre-release beta was
shown, to the time that the product was withdrawn from official
production, three years has elapsed.

Now, if you want to add to that the time to the start of the ***y
media hype that heralded the fact that Crammond was well into the
programming, and add the almost 12-months that was added to its original
release date, before Bill Steely was bought out by Spectrum Holobyte and
everything went off the rails, the time period is closer to 5 years.

So if you want to get picky, grin or not, I can get equally as pedantic!

--
Bruce
(at work)

"Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get
tired."
(Jules Renard)