rec.autos.simulators

MSFF Port or USB

Jeff Chapma

MSFF Port or USB

by Jeff Chapma » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance difference
between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS out of
simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

Shum

MSFF Port or USB

by Shum » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
currently available in USB.

You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

Cheers,

Shumi


Douglas Elliso

MSFF Port or USB

by Douglas Elliso » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF.  I'm VERY
pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
whatsoever!

USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
Doug


> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
> currently available in USB.

> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> Cheers,

> Shumi



> > I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance
> difference
> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS out of
> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > Thanks in advance,
> > Jeff

Shum

MSFF Port or USB

by Shum » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

BUT..... have you tried anything else? You have to try something else to
really see what you are missing if you haven't.

When you say "unaffected" does this mean you are getting max. 36fps
constantly in GPL?
Are you playing online and notice any lag?

Here's an ICQ message from one of the 4 guys I mentioned. Sent it to me just
after I cleaned out my history;

You have received a message!
Hey!! You were damn right Jason... The Microsoft Wheel Suckss big time!
After only 2 days with the ACT Labs I can see the difference. The MS wheel
really impact the game online. I don't know what it is but u were right and
this is now much more fun to race online. No more lag... I'm really amazed.
It looks like a more real race now. I can follow a driver much closer than
before... It looks like there is no lag anymore. I'm really surprised....

Technically the MSFF wheel is lacking BIGTIME. But don't take my word for it
(I ripped it off my desk 30 mins. in, after tasting other wheels with
exponentially better performance). Just read above from a guy who has little
knowledge of the technology employed, but noticed the difference INSTANTLY.

Cheers,

Shumi


> Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF.  I'm VERY
> pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> (CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> whatsoever!

> USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> Doug


> > There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First
of
> > all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
sidewinder is
> > currently available in USB.

> > You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
to
> > other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> > system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
will
> > be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> > I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> > another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
jumped
> > up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never
get
> > disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> > Cheers,

> > Shumi



> > > I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance
> > difference
> > > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS
out of
> > > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Jeff

GTX_SlotCa

MSFF Port or USB

by GTX_SlotCa » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

For a good inexpensive FF wheel go to www.guillemot.com  and order the
Ferrari racing wheel for $130. Its gets higher ratings than the MS wheel and
the pedals are better. The MSFF wheel seems like a roll of the dice. Some
guys have no problems, but the only guy I know personally that has one, gets
booted out of SOME games because of it.

>I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance difference
>between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS out of
>simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>Thanks in advance,
>Jeff

Shum

MSFF Port or USB

by Shum » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. I would just hate to see
someone make a poor buying decision, when are sooo many better wheels out
there presently, and in most cases... for a better price.

Cheers,

Shumi

Mark F

MSFF Port or USB

by Mark F » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Ok, well, I'll start the fight.  Here are your choices:
    Logitech, Very Accurate in Force Functions, low force until you replace
barings to ball barings. Then good wheel, uses pots, un accurate.
    Microsft FF-USB, Not as accurate FF functions as in Logitech, but does
it's job great.  Currently my own and better then any thrustmaster wheel you
might of owned.  Frames drop? This person has gone crazy, no frames drop
here, ain't i don't got a powert system.  Celeron 300a non o/c, w/ 256mbs
sdram w/ win2000 and w98se.  High car point accuracy due to no stinkin Pot
use, but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that.
    Guillemont, no clue.

--
                    Sincerely,
                    Mark F. - SimGo Director

Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
http://simgo.vstores.com

Phil Winsto

MSFF Port or USB

by Phil Winsto » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00



He doesn't need to. As long as he notices no difference in frame rate
between the FF being turned on or off in GPL, it would indicate no
difference - as in, unaffected.

 I haven't noticed any lag in the wheel, however I haven't tried any
other FF wheels (some non-FF though). I don't like the way which the
Microsoft FF wheel seems to slip out of grip when you turn it quickly
from left to right, in the center, as though a mechanism is attaching
itself. Anybody know why?

Personally, I chose the Microsoft FF wheel not just because it's a
decent force feedback wheel, but also because of the number of buttons
on the wheel itself. I hate having to reach over to the keyboard
during play.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to put the table clamp to much use,
as there's a bar underneath the edge of my table, which makes it
impossible to attach the Microsoft wheel to. Instead I have to use a
small coffee table. Doesn't give quite the same 'racing' feel when the
wheel isn't right infront of you or the monitor, especially not in
accurate and sensitive sims like Grand Prix Legends.

Phil Winstow
     ICQ: 57400677

Joe Marque

MSFF Port or USB

by Joe Marque » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I've used both wheels.  The LWFF is FAR better than the MSFF.  The pedals
are only a problem for me in GPL.  They are tolerable and I'm sure they'd be
fine if I added stiffer springs.  Instead I use my TSW2 pedals for GPL only.
For everything else the pedals are fine.

The MSFF, on the other hand, is mediocre.  The wheel is notchy and grinds
(geared FF vs. the smooth steel cable of LWFF).  The paddle shifters are
just buttons so they aren't very good.  The feel is plastic which to me is
cheap.  The LWFF has a nice soft *** feel and just feels better.  The
LWFF is a simmer's wheel bc it's extremely precise and the FF is not
overdone.  After trying both I kept the LWFF.  If the MSFF was the only FF
wheel on the market I would have returned it and kept using my TSW2.

--
Joe Marques


Scott Pritchet

MSFF Port or USB

by Scott Pritchet » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hello Jeff,

Someone else may have mentioned this, but my MSFF and the specs listed on the
www.microsoft.com/sidewinder web pages only supports gameport interface.

I have had the MSFF for quite a while.  After the rave reviews around here for the
LWFF, I bought one of those when my son needed a new wheel.  I have to say
I am sorry I didn't get another MSFF.  Both of our systems are fast and we
use a cable modem via a PCI e-net adapter, so the system performance issues
others mention have not materialized for us. The consistency, optical digital
sampling, no need for calibration and better pedals make the MSFF a winner
for me.  BTW:  My son ended up with the MSFF and I'm "stuck" with the wingman.
I always wonder what audio/gameport card people are using who have these
problems.  We're using SBLive cards FWIW.

Best Wishes,
Scott


> I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance difference
> between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS out of
> simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> Thanks in advance,
> Jeff

Ken Bear

MSFF Port or USB

by Ken Bear » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

SB Live here, too, and no problems noted with a MSFF.  Had a LWFF, hated the
pedals vs. my old TM NASCAR Pro, and mine had a horrendous squeak develop
after a few months.  Tried to get in there and fix it, with not much luck -
and even less luck getting it back together properly.

Grabbed a MSFF - $100 open box special at Best Buy that didn't look to have
been even touched, and the only thing I miss about the LWFF is the shifter
paddles.  In an hour, I was beating my best times in GPL that I had set in
4-5 months of use of the LWFF - which about tells all the story.  It isn't
perfect, it does have a bit more play than I'd like when you change
directions quickly, and at first seemed a bit notchy - which I really don't
notice at all anymore.  To *me*, the professed advantage of the LWFF that
everyone claims on RAS isn't nearly as great as it's made to be.  The pedals
flat out suck, and the trick to use CH Pedals or whatever only works in
GPL - most other software won't see other pedals.  The MS wheel has a better
mounting system, and the angle of the wheel works better for *me* at *my*
desk

Not saying the LWFF is bad, it's very good - but *try* the MSFF - it's very
good also.  It *may* suit you better.

--
Ken's Sig 3.01

"Who is the more foolish?  The fool, or the fool who follows him?" -
Obi-Wan Kenobi

Go #43 and #44!

volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com


> Hello Jeff,

> Someone else may have mentioned this, but my MSFF and the specs listed on
the
> www.microsoft.com/sidewinder web pages only supports gameport interface.

> I have had the MSFF for quite a while.  After the rave reviews around here
for the
> LWFF, I bought one of those when my son needed a new wheel.  I have to say
> I am sorry I didn't get another MSFF.  Both of our systems are fast and we
> use a cable modem via a PCI e-net adapter, so the system performance
issues
> others mention have not materialized for us. The consistency, optical
digital
> sampling, no need for calibration and better pedals make the MSFF a winner
> for me.  BTW:  My son ended up with the MSFF and I'm "stuck" with the
wingman.
> I always wonder what audio/gameport card people are using who have these
> problems.  We're using SBLive cards FWIW.

> Best Wishes,
> Scott




- Show quoted text -

Douglas Elliso

MSFF Port or USB

by Douglas Elliso » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Racing at length, on line....Hmmm

Not in the UK are you!

And yes, I've played TOCA 2, GPL and RC2K with both my MSFF and my plain
and simple joystick.  With GPL, I'll get 25-30 at the start of a race
(with both) raising to a constant 36 elsewhere.

I've tried the Logitech - and thought it was UTTER CRAP....the pedals
are absoloutley CHRONIC and the FF is less strong, and somehow, less
real than with my MSFF.  Before people start ranting and raving about
getting seperate pedals...NO I WILL NOT.  When I spend that much money
on ANY computer peripheral, I expect it to be all of a high-quality -
not alright, and with UTTER ***to finish the job off.

Doug


> BUT..... have you tried anything else? You have to try something else to
> really see what you are missing if you haven't.

> When you say "unaffected" does this mean you are getting max. 36fps
> constantly in GPL?
> Are you playing online and notice any lag?

> Here's an ICQ message from one of the 4 guys I mentioned. Sent it to me just
> after I cleaned out my history;

> You have received a message!
> Hey!! You were damn right Jason... The Microsoft Wheel Suckss big time!
> After only 2 days with the ACT Labs I can see the difference. The MS wheel
> really impact the game online. I don't know what it is but u were right and
> this is now much more fun to race online. No more lag... I'm really amazed.
> It looks like a more real race now. I can follow a driver much closer than
> before... It looks like there is no lag anymore. I'm really surprised....

> Technically the MSFF wheel is lacking BIGTIME. But don't take my word for it
> (I ripped it off my desk 30 mins. in, after tasting other wheels with
> exponentially better performance). Just read above from a guy who has little
> knowledge of the technology employed, but noticed the difference INSTANTLY.

> Cheers,

> Shumi



> > Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> > unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF.  I'm VERY
> > pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> > without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> > second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> > (CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> > it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> > So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> > practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> > whatsoever!

> > USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> > Doug


> > > There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First
> of
> > > all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
> sidewinder is
> > > currently available in USB.

> > > You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
> to
> > > other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> > > system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
> will
> > > be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> > > I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> > > another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
> jumped
> > > up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never
> get
> > > disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> > > Cheers,

> > > Shumi



> > > > I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance
> > > difference
> > > > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS
> out of
> > > > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Jeff

Douglas Elliso

MSFF Port or USB

by Douglas Elliso » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Oh, and I've got 3 axis control in RC2K, and it's fantastic.  Other
people seem to be having a few problems with other wheel...THAT makes me
laugh.

Doug


> BUT..... have you tried anything else? You have to try something else to
> really see what you are missing if you haven't.

> When you say "unaffected" does this mean you are getting max. 36fps
> constantly in GPL?
> Are you playing online and notice any lag?

> Here's an ICQ message from one of the 4 guys I mentioned. Sent it to me just
> after I cleaned out my history;

> You have received a message!
> Hey!! You were damn right Jason... The Microsoft Wheel Suckss big time!
> After only 2 days with the ACT Labs I can see the difference. The MS wheel
> really impact the game online. I don't know what it is but u were right and
> this is now much more fun to race online. No more lag... I'm really amazed.
> It looks like a more real race now. I can follow a driver much closer than
> before... It looks like there is no lag anymore. I'm really surprised....

> Technically the MSFF wheel is lacking BIGTIME. But don't take my word for it
> (I ripped it off my desk 30 mins. in, after tasting other wheels with
> exponentially better performance). Just read above from a guy who has little
> knowledge of the technology employed, but noticed the difference INSTANTLY.

> Cheers,

> Shumi



> > Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> > unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF.  I'm VERY
> > pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> > without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> > second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> > (CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> > it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> > So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> > practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> > whatsoever!

> > USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> > Doug


> > > There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First
> of
> > > all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
> sidewinder is
> > > currently available in USB.

> > > You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
> to
> > > other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> > > system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
> will
> > > be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> > > I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> > > another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
> jumped
> > > up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never
> get
> > > disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> > > Cheers,

> > > Shumi



> > > > I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance
> > > difference
> > > > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS
> out of
> > > > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Jeff

Douglas Elliso

MSFF Port or USB

by Douglas Elliso » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00


> I've used both wheels.  The LWFF is FAR better than the MSFF.  The pedals
> are only a problem for me in GPL.  They are tolerable and I'm sure they'd be
> fine if I added stiffer springs.  Instead I use my TSW2 pedals for GPL only.
> For everything else the pedals are fine.

> The MSFF, on the other hand, is mediocre.  The wheel is notchy and grinds
> (geared FF vs. the smooth steel cable of LWFF).  The paddle shifters are
> just buttons so they aren't very good.  The feel is plastic which to me is
> cheap.  The LWFF has a nice soft *** feel and just feels better.  The
> LWFF is a simmer's wheel

What's a simmer.  Do you mean someone who uses simulators.

We're playing games, not arcade or simulators.

Simulators are what you use to learn how to fly a jumbo jet.  Arcades
are what you play at the mall.  Games are what get thrown in the PSX,
CD-ROM etc....

The feel of the MSFF is more vulcanized ***, not plastic.  

Why don't you just do that then...return your FF wheel and keep using
your TSW2...after all, you have to use the TSW2 pedals anyway.....

Doug

> --
> Joe Marques



> > I need some info for a Christmas gift.  Is there any performance
> difference
> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions?  I need to stay with MS out of
> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > Thanks in advance,
> > Jeff

Joel Willstei

MSFF Port or USB

by Joel Willstei » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00


Shumi,

    I use a MSFF wheel and my online racing at VROC usally has rock solid
connections and 34-6 fps.

Joel Willstein


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