rec.autos.simulators

by **(Raymond, ACT LABS** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hello,
Once again, I am hurt that our wheel was not mentioned. I am not
going to spam you, but you should at least take a look at the ACT LABS
Force RS. www.act-labs.com

Raymond
ACT LABS

>Ok, well, I'll start the fight. Here are your choices:
> Logitech, Very Accurate in Force Functions, low force until you replace
>barings to ball barings. Then good wheel, uses pots, un accurate.
> Microsft FF-USB, Not as accurate FF functions as in Logitech, but does
>it's job great. Currently my own and better then any thrustmaster wheel you
>might of owned. Frames drop? This person has gone crazy, no frames drop
>here, ain't i don't got a powert system. Celeron 300a non o/c, w/ 256mbs
>sdram w/ win2000 and w98se. High car point accuracy due to no stinkin Pot
>use, but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that.
> Guillemont, no clue.

>--
> Sincerely,
> Mark F. - SimGo Director

>Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
>Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>> I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. I would just hate to see
>> someone make a poor buying decision, when are sooo many better wheels out
>> there presently, and in most cases... for a better price.

>> Cheers,

>> Shumi

Raymond
ACT LABS

by **dirkairc..** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I have been using a ms precision pro race wheel USB version (its non
force feedback)for 2 months or so playing GPL Nascar 3 Viper race and
SCGT. everything worked good until 'upgrading' to win98 second edition
the only game that worked with the wheel was GPL (with the 1.2 patch)
Nascar 3 only saw the pedals,viper race only left turn wich also
applied the brake,and SCGT just went belly up.
all the games worked with my MS P Pro joystick (also USB) and that
leads me to think that there might be a problem with the MS USB wheel
driver sofware.(and if you wait for MS to update the software it might
be ready in time to play Nascar 12 the anti-grav league).
Win 98 SE uses DX6.1a and It would not allow me to downgrade to DX6.1
and I don't have the know-how to do it.
I ended up formatting my only HD for the 2nd time in 2 days and re-
installing my original Win98 (with no DX stuff by default) and using
DX6.1 and eveything is back to normal.
It probably does not answer your question but Knowing what I know now
I would have bought the MS Force Feedback version,which,in the UK is
gameport only and is only 30 Pounds(no pound sign I inslalled USA
keyboard,just found out DOH!)more expensive than the non FFB USB ONLY
version.
Sorry this reply is a bit long but I just spent (no joke )
2 FULL FULL FULL days finding this out. I am slightly Miffed.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **(Raymond, ACT LABS** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hello,
FYI, the newest drivers for the ACT LABS Force RS also support 3 axis
control.

Raymond
ACT LABS

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:29:08 +0000, Douglas Ellison

>Oh, and I've got 3 axis control in RC2K, and it's fantastic. Other
>people seem to be having a few problems with other wheel...THAT makes me
>laugh.

>Doug

>> BUT..... have you tried anything else? You have to try something else to
>> really see what you are missing if you haven't.

>> When you say "unaffected" does this mean you are getting max. 36fps
>> constantly in GPL?
>> Are you playing online and notice any lag?

>> Here's an ICQ message from one of the 4 guys I mentioned. Sent it to me just
>> after I cleaned out my history;

>> You have received a message!
>> Hey!! You were damn right Jason... The Microsoft Wheel Suckss big time!
>> After only 2 days with the ACT Labs I can see the difference. The MS wheel
>> really impact the game online. I don't know what it is but u were right and
>> this is now much more fun to race online. No more lag... I'm really amazed.
>> It looks like a more real race now. I can follow a driver much closer than
>> before... It looks like there is no lag anymore. I'm really surprised....

>> Technically the MSFF wheel is lacking BIGTIME. But don't take my word for it
>> (I ripped it off my desk 30 mins. in, after tasting other wheels with
>> exponentially better performance). Just read above from a guy who has little
>> knowledge of the technology employed, but noticed the difference INSTANTLY.

>> Cheers,

>> Shumi

>> > Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
>> > unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
>> > pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
>> > without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
>> > second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
>> > (CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
>> > it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

>> > So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
>> > practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
>> > whatsoever!

>> > USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
>> > Doug

>> > > There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First
>> of
>> > > all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
>> sidewinder is
>> > > currently available in USB.

>> > > You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
>> to
>> > > other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
>> > > system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
>> will
>> > > be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

>> > > I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
>> > > another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
>> jumped
>> > > up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never
>> get
>> > > disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

>> > > Cheers,

>> > > Shumi

>> > > > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
>> > > difference
>> > > > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS
>> out of
>> > > > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>> > > > Thanks in advance,
>> > > > Jeff

Raymond
ACT LABS

by **(Raymond, ACT LABS** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Not too sure about frame rate drops, but you do have a P3-500. Wonder
if maybe a slower CPU would be more affected.

Raymond
ACT LABS

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison

>Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
>unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
>pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
>without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
>second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
>(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
>it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

>So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
>practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
>whatsoever!

>USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
>Doug

>> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
>> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
>> currently available in USB.

>> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
>> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
>> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
>> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

>> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
>> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
>> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
>> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

>> Cheers,

>> Shumi

>> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
>> difference
>> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS out of
>> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Jeff

Raymond
ACT LABS

by **(Raymond, ACT LABS** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hello,
Thanks for the kind words on our product. FYI, Shuni is not an
employee of ACT LABS. :) Although maybe we should hire him. :)

Raymond
ACT LABS

>BUT..... have you tried anything else? You have to try something else to
>really see what you are missing if you haven't.

>When you say "unaffected" does this mean you are getting max. 36fps
>constantly in GPL?
>Are you playing online and notice any lag?

>Here's an ICQ message from one of the 4 guys I mentioned. Sent it to me just
>after I cleaned out my history;

>You have received a message!
>Hey!! You were damn right Jason... The Microsoft Wheel Suckss big time!
>After only 2 days with the ACT Labs I can see the difference. The MS wheel
>really impact the game online. I don't know what it is but u were right and
>this is now much more fun to race online. No more lag... I'm really amazed.
>It looks like a more real race now. I can follow a driver much closer than
>before... It looks like there is no lag anymore. I'm really surprised....

>Technically the MSFF wheel is lacking BIGTIME. But don't take my word for it
>(I ripped it off my desk 30 mins. in, after tasting other wheels with
>exponentially better performance). Just read above from a guy who has little
>knowledge of the technology employed, but noticed the difference INSTANTLY.

>Cheers,

>Shumi

>> Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
>> unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
>> pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
>> without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
>> second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
>> (CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
>> it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

>> So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
>> practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
>> whatsoever!

>> USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
>> Doug

>> > There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First
>of
>> > all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
>sidewinder is
>> > currently available in USB.

>> > You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
>to
>> > other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
>> > system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
>will
>> > be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

>> > I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
>> > another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
>jumped
>> > up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never
>get
>> > disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

>> > Cheers,

>> > Shumi

>> > > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
>> > difference
>> > > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS
>out of
>> > > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>> > > Thanks in advance,
>> > > Jeff

Raymond
ACT LABS

by **Douglas Elliso** » Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> Not too sure about frame rate drops, but you do have a P3-500. Wonder
> if maybe a slower CPU would be more affected.

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

Stop trying to sell me your Act-Labs wheel - I'm VERY happy with the one
I already have.

Doug

> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison

> >Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> >unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
> >pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> >without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> >second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> >(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> >it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> >So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> >practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> >whatsoever!

> >USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> >Doug

> >> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
> >> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
> >> currently available in USB.

> >> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
> >> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> >> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
> >> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> >> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> >> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
> >> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
> >> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> >> Cheers,

> >> Shumi

> >> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
> >> difference
> >> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS out of
> >> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> >> > Thanks in advance,
> >> > Jeff

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

by **Larry Hawe** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Joe,

I read that you had /or have a TSW2 wheel and have replaced it with the LWFF. Do
you like the LWFF better? I am thinking of upgrading my MSFF wheel because of
the hit I think it takes on my more meager CPU; 233 PII. I was thinking the
Thompsons was the wheel to get but would love to hear what you have to say about
it versus the LWFF.
TIA
Larry

> I've used both wheels. The LWFF is FAR better than the MSFF. The pedals
> are only a problem for me in GPL. They are tolerable and I'm sure they'd be
> fine if I added stiffer springs. Instead I use my TSW2 pedals for GPL only.
> For everything else the pedals are fine.

> The MSFF, on the other hand, is mediocre. The wheel is notchy and grinds
> (geared FF vs. the smooth steel cable of LWFF). The paddle shifters are
> just buttons so they aren't very good. The feel is plastic which to me is
> cheap. The LWFF has a nice soft *** feel and just feels better. The
> LWFF is a simmer's wheel bc it's extremely precise and the FF is not
> overdone. After trying both I kept the LWFF. If the MSFF was the only FF
> wheel on the market I would have returned it and kept using my TSW2.

> --
> Joe Marques

> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
> difference
> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS out of
> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> > Thanks in advance,
> > Jeff

by **Bria** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I recently changed from an MSFF to a LWFF and I have no regrets spending
another $250 CDN. BTW, I'm running PII 450, Voodoo3 3000, 256MB, Turtle
Beach Montego II (Vortex 2).

Compared to the MSFF (which I had since it first came out), I found the LWFF
to be better in the following areas:
1) Force Feedback feels better to me - this is subjective, but it feels much
better - especially noticeable with Viper.
2) Version 3.30 of LWFF profiler allows for separate profiles that are
loaded automatically when games are started.
3) Nicer shifter paddles
4) Nicer feel of wheel
5) Using USB port, significant framerate increases:
- GPL, average of 3-4 fps at startline, get same fps at 1280x1024 that I got
before at 1024x768
- N3, average of 3 fps at Bristol in traffic
- SCGT, no slowdown at all with LWFF, very choppy (unplayable) with MSFF
- increase was almost as big as going from Voodoo2 to Voodoo3 3000

The MSFF is better wrt:
1) much more comfortable pedals, easier to control
2) smoother in non-FF games

FYI, before I got the MSFF, I had an Act Labs Force RS for a week when it
first came out. I returned it because:
- GPL did not support FF at the time
- Act Labs self-centering (for non-FF games) did not work in GPL
- Force RS did not support separate axis' for gas and brake (I believe it
does now)
- pedals a bit sticky (I've heard this goes away with use)
- shifter paddle quite flimsy

However, the Force RS did have the best steering wheel and FF feel (from
what I remember).

Brian

> Joe,

> I read that you had /or have a TSW2 wheel and have replaced it with the
LWFF. Do
> you like the LWFF better? I am thinking of upgrading my MSFF wheel because
of
> the hit I think it takes on my more meager CPU; 233 PII. I was thinking
the
> Thompsons was the wheel to get but would love to hear what you have to say
about
> it versus the LWFF.
> TIA
> Larry

> > I've used both wheels. The LWFF is FAR better than the MSFF. The
pedals
> > are only a problem for me in GPL. They are tolerable and I'm sure
they'd be
> > fine if I added stiffer springs. Instead I use my TSW2 pedals for GPL
only.
> > For everything else the pedals are fine.

> > The MSFF, on the other hand, is mediocre. The wheel is notchy and
grinds
> > (geared FF vs. the smooth steel cable of LWFF). The paddle shifters are
> > just buttons so they aren't very good. The feel is plastic which to me
is
> > cheap. The LWFF has a nice soft *** feel and just feels better. The
> > LWFF is a simmer's wheel bc it's extremely precise and the FF is not
> > overdone. After trying both I kept the LWFF. If the MSFF was the only
FF
> > wheel on the market I would have returned it and kept using my TSW2.

by **Joe Marque** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I'll choose my own terms thank you very much. I'm a simmer, I play
simulations. You can call it whatever you wish, no need to bicker. Oh,
that's right your a know-it-all ***.

Little uptight that you own the inferior wheel? That's the only logical
explanation for your idiotic response. Pay attention to what I wrote. I
indicated that I would return the MSFF if it were the only FF wheel because
I don't like it. It is alright not to like your wheel isn't it Dougie boy?

I am very pleased with the LWFF and that's why I kept it. My entire post
was simply to offer some insight since I've used both wheels. Why do you
disagree with such an obnoxious tone? Just add your opinion and move on.
You're certainly not going to change my opinion since I could give a shit
what you think about anything.

Have a nice day.

--
Joe Marques

by **(Raymond, ACT LABS** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hello Doug,
I was not trying to sell you an ACT LABS wheel...in this instance. I
apologize if it came across that way. I was merely bringing up
possible factors that affect frame rate. I posed a question, not a
sales pitch. Newgroups are, after all, for raising thought provoking
topics, aren't they? That too, is a question, not a sales pitch.

Raymond
ACT LABS

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:18:37 +0000, Douglas Ellison

>> Not too sure about frame rate drops, but you do have a P3-500. Wonder
>> if maybe a slower CPU would be more affected.

>> Raymond
>> ACT LABS

>Stop trying to sell me your Act-Labs wheel - I'm VERY happy with the one
>I already have.

>Doug

>> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison

>> >Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
>> >unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
>> >pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
>> >without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
>> >second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
>> >(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
>> >it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

>> >So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
>> >practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
>> >whatsoever!

>> >USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
>> >Doug

>> >> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
>> >> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
>> >> currently available in USB.

>> >> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
>> >> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
>> >> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
>> >> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

>> >> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
>> >> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
>> >> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
>> >> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

>> >> Cheers,

>> >> Shumi

>> >> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
>> >> difference
>> >> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS out of
>> >> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>> >> > Thanks in advance,
>> >> > Jeff

>> Raymond
>> ACT LABS

Raymond
ACT LABS

by **Shum** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I have to reply to this message, because I seem to be unable to load
previously d-loaded message headers from this NG.

As far as the gentleman who wanted to start the fight... if you want it...
here we go...

First of all it is apparent you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking
about. I can be sure of this since you refer to the MSFF-USB wheel, but it
hasn't even been released yet! (not due until the end of the Q1 or beginning
of Q2 2000) Only the MS NON-FF is available in USB currently.

Next we will go into the "High Accuracy" you speak of (except we will use
the "real" Gameport MSFF wheel). Are you aware that it is among the least
accurate wheels on the market? I mean "technically" of course. It has one of
the lowest positioning resolutions on the market. This is mainly due to the
fact that MS has to cut into the positioning resolution to combat the
ernormous amount of "jitter" these so-called accurate optical light sensors
produce. so what you are left with is a wheel with 270 degrees of turn, but
approximately 96 positioning targets to work with. That means that the wheel
is only able to translate every 3rd degree of turn. This is laughable....
the so-called unaccurate potentiometer wheels are achieving positioning
resolutions to the tune of 128+

In fact the Logitech currently possesses the highest positioning resolution
in FF wheels.

As far as the framedrops and my being crazy..... the frames are not dropping
sporatically because you are constantly being taxed with the MS digital
technology (as opposed to during right hand turns in analog wheels using the
SG). Perhaps some will have enough power in their CPU to make up the lost
time, but it IS taxing your system.

I'm not even going to start with the rachety feeling I got with the MS.

The MS wheel will perform better when it is ported to USB, since this will
solve all of the taxation issues. However... they also need to take a
serious look at their USB algorithm and how they plan to avoid dropping 3
bits of information from the positioning resolution to counteract the jitter
that would occur if they didn't.

A quick question for Mark...... do you have any idea how wheels/joysticks
work? Are you aware of how the Standard Gameport works? Are you familiar
with how the computer translates the positioning of the axis to the game?
Are you familiar with the Microsoft "Optics" you speak so highly of?

Ok..... so I'm trying to make a point..... I already know the answers to the
above questions.

"but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that" under normal
circumstances this may be the case but the "optics" you speak of is really
just a mini "camera" pointing at an LED type pad. It still needs to be
looked at a lot more before they are "more accurate". Current potentiometer
implementations are still more accurate (although not perfect).

Cheers,

Shumi

P.S. Awaiting your reply... I'm just getting started....

> Hello,
> Once again, I am hurt that our wheel was not mentioned. I am not
> going to spam you, but you should at least take a look at the ACT LABS
> Force RS. www.act-labs.com

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

> >Ok, well, I'll start the fight. Here are your choices:
> > Logitech, Very Accurate in Force Functions, low force until you
replace
> >barings to ball barings. Then good wheel, uses pots, un accurate.
> > Microsft FF-USB, Not as accurate FF functions as in Logitech, but
does
> >it's job great. Currently my own and better then any thrustmaster wheel
you
> >might of owned. Frames drop? This person has gone crazy, no frames drop
> >here, ain't i don't got a powert system. Celeron 300a non o/c, w/ 256mbs
> >sdram w/ win2000 and w98se. High car point accuracy due to no stinkin
Pot
> >use, but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that.
> > Guillemont, no clue.

> >--
> > Sincerely,
> > Mark F. - SimGo Director

> >Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
> >Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
> >http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
> >http://simgo.vstores.com

> >> I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. I would just hate to see
> >> someone make a poor buying decision, when are sooo many better wheels
out
> >> there presently, and in most cases... for a better price.

> >> Cheers,

> >> Shumi

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

by **Douglas Elliso** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Clearly using the word *** makes you both more intelligent and
literate than everyone else.

You've won my own argument...YOU'RE PLAYING......

What do people play...GAMES....

You don't 'play' a simulation.

As, clearly, are you.

Actually - i like the MSFF, and feel that I got my money's worth. I have
no intention of replaceing it. However - I took objection to the fact
that you think buying a product that needs 50% of another product to
make it worth while is commerciallly correct from the Manufacturers
point of view.

So you'd rather have no FF than MSFF??

And you've refered to me as 'Doo G', phonetically speaking...the word
you're looking for is Dougey. However - I object to being called as
such. My friends call me Doug, my family tend to call be
Douglas..(After all, they chose it) and you can call me Mr Ellison.

I just took objection to your tone, thats all.

I did.

Clearly something you could not handle.

Boo hoo....unfortunately - you've just said that you "could give a shit"
about my opinion - so clearly you're going to take head of my
words....what you meant to say was "couldn't give a shit".

Or maybe you're illiterate?

Bit icey, but a nice morning as it happens...and yourself?

Ahh..so is it Joey, Joey boy, the Marquess? What's it to be?

Doug

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

>Boo hoo....unfortunately - you've just said that you "could give a shit"
>about my opinion - so clearly you're going to take head of my
>words....what you meant to say was "couldn't give a shit".

>Or maybe you're illiterate?

You nailed the guy for one of my favorite pet peeves..the could/couldn't
thing, but the word is 'heed', not head.

Maybe the guy just hates the wheel because it has Microsoft on it. There
are plenty of narrow-minded people in the world who automatically dislike
anything associated with MS, even if it actually has merit.

Hang Ten,

~daxe

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Shum** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Unfortunately the MSFF Gameport Wheel has little merit... Not basing my
decision on the opinion of the manufacturer.... but on the cold hard facts
of it's design and implementation.

Shumi

> >Boo hoo....unfortunately - you've just said that you "could give a shit"
> >about my opinion - so clearly you're going to take head of my
> >words....what you meant to say was "couldn't give a shit".

> >Or maybe you're illiterate?

> You nailed the guy for one of my favorite pet peeves..the could/couldn't
> thing, but the word is 'heed', not head.

> Maybe the guy just hates the wheel because it has Microsoft on it. There
> are plenty of narrow-minded people in the world who automatically dislike
> anything associated with MS, even if it actually has merit.

> Hang Ten,

> ~daxe

> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers

==-----

by **Douglas Elliso** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> Unfortunately the MSFF Gameport Wheel has little merit... Not basing my
> decision on the opinion of the manufacturer.... but on the cold hard facts
> of it's design and implementation.

> Shumi

In your opinion, obviously.

In MY opinion, it's a sturdy, well built, practical, and well designed
piece of kit....

Simple rule - make sure you buy something like a wheel from a local
store, then if you are not pleased you can return it, to exchange / get
your money back...

Doug

> > >Boo hoo....unfortunately - you've just said that you "could give a shit"
> > >about my opinion - so clearly you're going to take head of my
> > >words....what you meant to say was "couldn't give a shit".

> > >Or maybe you're illiterate?

> > You nailed the guy for one of my favorite pet peeves..the could/couldn't
> > thing, but the word is 'heed', not head.

> > Maybe the guy just hates the wheel because it has Microsoft on it. There
> > are plenty of narrow-minded people in the world who automatically dislike
> > anything associated with MS, even if it actually has merit.

> > Hang Ten,

> > ~daxe

> > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
> ==----------
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers
> ==-----

rec.autos.simulators

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB