rec.autos.simulators

by **Mark Seer** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

You have a singing CPU there Doug. Those with slower ones, and hence less
CPU overhead might be affected by frame drain much worse.

Just food for thought

MS

by **Mark F** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Ok, well, I ain't here to blame anything, and have once looked into your
wheel, and I will tell you the truth gang here from reports. ForceRS,
SUperb FF Functions, though no as detailed, but stronge force, but with
logitech, ms has better system because this also uses pots.
For more info, just go to and get your answer yourself:
http://www.force-1.com/

--
Sincerely,
Mark F. - SimGo Director

Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
http://simgo.vstores.com

> Hello,
> Once again, I am hurt that our wheel was not mentioned. I am not
> going to spam you, but you should at least take a look at the ACT LABS
> Force RS. www.act-labs.com

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

> >Ok, well, I'll start the fight. Here are your choices:
> > Logitech, Very Accurate in Force Functions, low force until you
replace
> >barings to ball barings. Then good wheel, uses pots, un accurate.
> > Microsft FF-USB, Not as accurate FF functions as in Logitech, but
does
> >it's job great. Currently my own and better then any thrustmaster wheel
you
> >might of owned. Frames drop? This person has gone crazy, no frames drop
> >here, ain't i don't got a powert system. Celeron 300a non o/c, w/ 256mbs
> >sdram w/ win2000 and w98se. High car point accuracy due to no stinkin
Pot
> >use, but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that.
> > Guillemont, no clue.

> >--
> > Sincerely,
> > Mark F. - SimGo Director

> >Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
> >Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
> >http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
> >http://simgo.vstores.com

> >> I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. I would just hate to see
> >> someone make a poor buying decision, when are sooo many better wheels
out
> >> there presently, and in most cases... for a better price.

> >> Cheers,

> >> Shumi

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Wed, 15 Dec 1999 04:00:00

>> Unfortunately the MSFF Gameport Wheel has little merit... Not basing my
>> decision on the opinion of the manufacturer.... but on the cold hard
facts
>> of it's design and implementation.

>> Shumi

>In your opinion, obviously.

>In MY opinion, it's a sturdy, well built, practical, and well designed
>piece of kit....

I will second this. I have a MSFF and it works great. No, I haven't tried
any other FF wheels because I'm happy with this one. I don't experience
frame rate difficulties with any of the games I try to play (DTR, SCGT, GPL,
MMM, MTM2, Driver, TOCA2, N3, NL, NFS-HS, ViperRacing) and the wheel and
pedals are accurate and responsive (as much as the software), allowing me to
control the vehicle very well. The Sidewinder software supplied with the
wheel is flexible and useful and fills all my needs.

Obviously you demand something else from your wheel and pedals if you find
no merit with a well built piece of hardware that performs exactly as
advertised. I must just have low standards, I guess.

~daxe

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by **Shum** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

What are you trying to say? I can't understand anything.... "man A went his
park go to dog walk rain in the."

Please explain (perhaps in point form for simplicity). Then I'll shoot it
down technologically when I can understand what it is you are saying.

Cheers,

Shumi

> Ok, well, I ain't here to blame anything, and have once looked into your
> wheel, and I will tell you the truth gang here from reports. ForceRS,
> SUperb FF Functions, though no as detailed, but stronge force, but with
> logitech, ms has better system because this also uses pots.
> For more info, just go to and get your answer yourself:
> http://www.force-1.com/

> --
> Sincerely,
> Mark F. - SimGo Director

> Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
> Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
> http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
> http://simgo.vstores.com

> > Hello,
> > Once again, I am hurt that our wheel was not mentioned. I am not
> > going to spam you, but you should at least take a look at the ACT LABS
> > Force RS. www.act-labs.com

> > Raymond
> > ACT LABS

> > >Ok, well, I'll start the fight. Here are your choices:
> > > Logitech, Very Accurate in Force Functions, low force until you
> replace
> > >barings to ball barings. Then good wheel, uses pots, un accurate.
> > > Microsft FF-USB, Not as accurate FF functions as in Logitech, but
> does
> > >it's job great. Currently my own and better then any thrustmaster
wheel
> you
> > >might of owned. Frames drop? This person has gone crazy, no frames
drop
> > >here, ain't i don't got a powert system. Celeron 300a non o/c, w/
256mbs
> > >sdram w/ win2000 and w98se. High car point accuracy due to no stinkin
> Pot
> > >use, but optics, don't get ANY MORE ACCURATE Then that.
> > > Guillemont, no clue.

> > >--
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Mark F. - SimGo Director

> > >Come, And Check The Best Sim Racing Site
> > >Out There -SimGo, The Place For SPEED!- At:
> > >http://members.xoom.com/DaRacerz/
> > >http://simgo.vstores.com

> > >> I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. I would just hate to
see
> > >> someone make a poor buying decision, when are sooo many better wheels
> out
> > >> there presently, and in most cases... for a better price.

> > >> Cheers,

> > >> Shumi

> > Raymond
> > ACT LABS

by **Douglas Elliso** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Hardly singing when the Athlon 750's out and about...oh, and my
housemate just finished his dual Celeron 500...we got asked what we'd do
with a 1000 Mhz machine..answer...Hmm..Games Mainly!! (Actually 3D
Studio Work, but hey, it's a laugh)

Doug

> You have a singing CPU there Doug. Those with slower ones, and hence less
> CPU overhead might be affected by frame drain much worse.

> Just food for thought

> MS
> > USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> > Doug

by **Flatline** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Not true..I have a PII 350 Mhz with 64mb ram and a i740 8mb videocard and I
cannot find any drop in frame rates...and I tried everything to force it
into lowering framerates.
There is no difference in framerates with or without the MSSFF wheel.
And I find it a welcome addition to my racing simulations, I tried the LWFF
and I preferred the MSSFF wheel because of it's stronger FF.

Flatliner

by **BendsMaste** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison
I have had a MSFF for nearly a year and been playing GPL since it came
out. The MSFF is a great wheel and I still like it, but 2 months ago I
went out and bought myself a LWFF because I felt a bit stuck with my
driving technique, and needed somehow without spending too much money,
to have more precision, specially with accelerating and breaking for
cornering.
At first it was a bit difficult to get used to because the
LWFF is more sensitive with my chosen settings, but after about 60
laps in GPL I understood why alison recommended it so much in her web
site.I felt a waited time in GPL fool for not having bought this wheel
in the first place. My driving technique seems to improve at a higher
rate due to more precision in my driving. The only problem is if you
buy a LWFF you will almost certainly have to spend more money to buy
pedals, because the original ones are next to useless for such quality
wheel. In my case I bought the CH Pedals and I will never look back,
I've got a renewed interest in GPL which is even stronger than before,
and it's all due to the combination of LWFF and the CH Pedals.
I still have the MSFF and my mates have to use it on the other
PC when they come along for few races, and they have no complaints as
I don't either. The problem with it is that if buy it you can only
use it on its own with its own pedals, it doesn't work with anything
else. But compared with the other wheels on the market is the best you
money will get for wheel and pedals together.
Last note: If I could use the CH pedals with the MSFF I still wouldn't
change back to the MSFF as the LWFF is in fact a much better product
on its own, in fact is superb for GPL!
As for frame rates, I have 2 pc's (PII 333/PII 450) which both had the
MSFF wheel for a year and I never, ever, not even once had any frame
rate problems related to MSFF at all. It does use more of your cpu
power to operate but nothing so dramatic as to have such loss of frame
rate some people out there like to believe,Do not worry about frame
rate when buying the MSFF wheel as it is not a concern. People who
say they've had frame rate decreased when using the MSFF, have either
a badly configured pc or a badly configured slow pc.
That was long.

Cheers.

Mauricio.

>Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
>unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
>pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
>without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
>second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
>(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
>it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

>So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
>practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
>whatsoever!

>USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
>Doug

>> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech. First of
>> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF sidewinder is
>> currently available in USB.

>> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared to
>> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
>> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability will
>> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

>> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
>> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates jumped
>> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost never get
>> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

>> Cheers,

>> Shumi

>> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
>> difference
>> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS out of
>> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Jeff

by **Peter Hoope** » Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Sorry if this is a bit late to drop in on this one but I use a MSFF on my
P233mmx, 64mb RAM, 16mb Maxi Gamer Phoenix Voodoo Banshee based system and
have found no difference in frame rates compared to when I was using a
non-ff wheel (Thrustmaster Formula 1 \ Nascar Pro).

In fact since updating to DirectX 7.0a I have found quite an improvement. In
my offline races I tend to get around 23 fps on the grid (9 ai cars) and am
in the 30-36 fps range for the majority of the race thereafter. I know this
may not sound too good to those of you with much higher end systems but I
don't think it's bad for my outdated one (which hopefully I will be
replacing with a higher spec machine early in the new year). I certainly
wouldn't knock any other wheel but can only say that I am very happy with
the MSFF and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

Peter Hooper

> Not too sure about frame rate drops, but you do have a P3-500. Wonder
> if maybe a slower CPU would be more affected.

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison

> >Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> >unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
> >pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> >without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> >second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> >(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> >it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> >So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> >practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> >whatsoever!

> >USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> >Doug

> >> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech.
First of
> >> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
sidewinder is
> >> currently available in USB.

> >> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
to
> >> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> >> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
will
> >> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> >> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> >> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
jumped
> >> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost
never get
> >> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> >> Cheers,

> >> Shumi

> >> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
> >> difference
> >> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS
out of
> >> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> >> > Thanks in advance,
> >> > Jeff

> Raymond
> ACT LABS

by **Peter Hoope** » Thu, 23 Dec 1999 04:00:00

See my earlier post in this thread regarding this... P233mmx and no frame
rate loss with the MSFF.

Peter Hooper

by **Larr** » Sat, 01 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I have the MSFFW and I GUARANTEE you it zaps 3fps from Nascar 3.

It's a fast machine, and I know how to configure them too.

-Larry

> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:33:21 +0000, Douglas Ellison

> I have had a MSFF for nearly a year and been playing GPL since it came
> out. The MSFF is a great wheel and I still like it, but 2 months ago I
> went out and bought myself a LWFF because I felt a bit stuck with my
> driving technique, and needed somehow without spending too much money,
> to have more precision, specially with accelerating and breaking for
> cornering.
> At first it was a bit difficult to get used to because the
> LWFF is more sensitive with my chosen settings, but after about 60
> laps in GPL I understood why alison recommended it so much in her web
> site.I felt a waited time in GPL fool for not having bought this wheel
> in the first place. My driving technique seems to improve at a higher
> rate due to more precision in my driving. The only problem is if you
> buy a LWFF you will almost certainly have to spend more money to buy
> pedals, because the original ones are next to useless for such quality
> wheel. In my case I bought the CH Pedals and I will never look back,
> I've got a renewed interest in GPL which is even stronger than before,
> and it's all due to the combination of LWFF and the CH Pedals.
> I still have the MSFF and my mates have to use it on the other
> PC when they come along for few races, and they have no complaints as
> I don't either. The problem with it is that if buy it you can only
> use it on its own with its own pedals, it doesn't work with anything
> else. But compared with the other wheels on the market is the best you
> money will get for wheel and pedals together.
> Last note: If I could use the CH pedals with the MSFF I still wouldn't
> change back to the MSFF as the LWFF is in fact a much better product
> on its own, in fact is superb for GPL!
> As for frame rates, I have 2 pc's (PII 333/PII 450) which both had the
> MSFF wheel for a year and I never, ever, not even once had any frame
> rate problems related to MSFF at all. It does use more of your cpu
> power to operate but nothing so dramatic as to have such loss of frame
> rate some people out there like to believe,Do not worry about frame
> rate when buying the MSFF wheel as it is not a concern. People who
> say they've had frame rate decreased when using the MSFF, have either
> a badly configured pc or a badly configured slow pc.
> That was long.

> Cheers.

> Mauricio.

> >Take MY word for it, when I tell you that my framerate is TOTALLY
> >unaffected in GPL, TOCA 2, and RC2000 when using my MSFF. I'm VERY
> >pleased with it, it was fairly cheap - locks straight onto my desk
> >without any trouble, and can be removed and put under the desk in 1/2 a
> >second. It's got strong, precise FF..a usefull software package with it
> >(CART Precision Racing is actually quite good - once you've got used to
> >it, although leave Monster Truck Madness WELL alone....)

> >So, my advice - get the MSFF - the pedals are FANTASTIC, it's very
> >practical, and I havn't noticed performance drop in any games
> >whatsoever!

> >USING - P3-500, 129Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee
> >Doug

> >> There is a HUGE difference between the Microsoft and the Logitech.
First of
> >> all.... the Microsoft FF wheel is not yet USB. Only the Non-FF
sidewinder is
> >> currently available in USB.

> >> You will notice a HUGE performance drop using the MSFF wheel, compared
to
> >> other FF USB implementations such as the Logitech or the ActLabs. Your
> >> system will be severely taxed by the MSFF wheel, and online stability
will
> >> be extremely suspect (a roll of the dice).

> >> I have had 4 former MSFF wheel owners who took my advice to look into
> >> another wheel, and they ALL said "A big thank-you... my framerates
jumped
> >> up, gameplay is smoother, steering is more intuitive, and I almost
never get
> >> disconnected now..." So don't just take my word for it...

> >> Cheers,

> >> Shumi

> >> > I need some info for a Christmas gift. Is there any performance
> >> difference
> >> > between the MSFF gameport and USB versions? I need to stay with MS
out of
> >> > simplicity and lack of desire to get different pedals for a LWFF.

> >> > Thanks in advance,
> >> > Jeff

by **Peter Hoope** » Mon, 03 Jan 2000 04:00:00

It may cost you 3 fps in N3 on your system but it definately does not do the
same on mine. Not trying to say that you have not configured your pc
correctly but just that it will not neccesarily have the same problem with
everyone else's machine.

Peter Hooper

by **James Tinni** » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Accelerated Gameport ,

is what makes all the difference

one of the best things i ever got into my system, (Moster sound, Vortex
A3D)

rec.autos.simulators

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB

MSFF Port or USB