rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:32:16

Finally got my Radeon 9500 Pro firing on all cylinders. (Well, 6 outta 8
ain't bad.)

Quick take: runs the new games (particularly the DX9-only demos) very
nicely,

BUT...

not what you want for GPL.

In the OpenGL mode, it's palpably slower than the hoary GF2 GTS it replaced.
Moreover, it shows some oddball artifacts, such as what looks like a couple
of burned out pixels in mid-screen...only I'm not runing an LCD monitor.

In the DX mode, it's about as fast as my trusty nVidia part.

Goes like gangbusters in GTR2002, Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, Rally
Championship, TIR, BMX Volleyball, etc.

Now, lessee if it o'clocks like the 'experts' say it should....

--Steve

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:55:43

"Steve Smith"
I think I recall there was a hex edit you had to preform to 'open' the
9.5c's up to overclocking. One of the OC sites might have more info on
that.
dave henrie

by **Edward** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:56:01

Steve, get the latest Rivatuner, it has "soft9700" which makes the 9500 turn
into a 9700, very cool... :-)

--
Edward
Commissioner
Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)
http://members.rogers.com/ecrawford1/mara/maramain.htm

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:47:33

Also meant to say it's not nearly as stable as the GeForce & 30.82 Dets -
screen occasionally fills with psychedelic garbage, inexplicable CTDs, etc.
Which is why I'm not anxious to o'clock it. It's fast enough for the
processor it's attached to (a 1.3-Ghz T'bird). It just seems far less
polished than the nVidia part.

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:53:43

And...I also meant to say the 9500 Pro is faster (with 'modern' PC games)
than either the GF4 4400 I tried in the same box or the Abit Siluro GF4 4200
Ti (the fastest GeForce in my vast collection of second-tier video cards).
This is subjective; I don't 'do' abstract benchmarks...or even pay much
attention to suspect frame-rate counters like GPL's quirky Alt-F or FRAPS.

End of comments.

> Steve, get the latest Rivatuner, it has "soft9700" which makes the 9500
turn
> into a 9700, very cool... :-)

> --
> Edward
> Commissioner
> Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)
> http://members.rogers.com/ecrawford1/mara/maramain.htm

> > Finally got my Radeon 9500 Pro firing on all cylinders. (Well, 6 outta
8
> > ain't bad.)

> > Quick take: runs the new games (particularly the DX9-only demos) very
> > nicely,

> > BUT...

> > not what you want for GPL.

> > In the OpenGL mode, it's palpably slower than the hoary GF2 GTS it
> replaced.
> > Moreover, it shows some oddball artifacts, such as what looks like a
> couple
> > of burned out pixels in mid-screen...only I'm not runing an LCD monitor.

> > In the DX mode, it's about as fast as my trusty nVidia part.

> > Goes like gangbusters in GTR2002, Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, Rally
> > Championship, TIR, BMX Volleyball, etc.

> > Now, lessee if it o'clocks like the 'experts' say it should....

> > --Steve

by **Joe M** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:20:22

NOT the 9500 Pro, only the 9500 non pro. The Pro has only 128-bit memory.
The 9500 shares the same PCB as the 9700 (256-bit) with the only difference
being slower ram and 4 of 8 pipelines disabled (likely 9700 gpu rejects that
are creatively labeled and sold as 9500's). The software simply activates
the other 4 pipelines. I've read 30 pages of posts and the results are
mixed. Not a worthwhile risk to get stuck with a non pro 9500 if the
soft9700 fails (the more posts I see, the more the failure % goes UP from
the initial claim of 30%). You're better off with a GF4 Ti 4400 at
www.newegg.com for $191 ($30 more than a 9500).

FWIW, I have an IDENTICAL system to a guy who used soft9700 - AMD1600/512MB
RAM/ECS MOBO - the only difference is my GF4 Ti 4400. I was pleasantly
surprised to see his 3dmark fps wasn't that much better than mine with 9700
performance (certainly not incentive for me to upgrade). I'm sure his
biggest advantage is limited to FSAA, which is great but I can still hold
out until I see with the Geforce FX can do with FSAA.

--
Joe M.

> Steve, get the latest Rivatuner, it has "soft9700" which makes the 9500
turn
> into a 9700, very cool... :-)

> --
> Edward
> Commissioner
> Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)
> http://members.rogers.com/ecrawford1/mara/maramain.htm

> > Finally got my Radeon 9500 Pro firing on all cylinders. (Well, 6 outta
8
> > ain't bad.)

> > Quick take: runs the new games (particularly the DX9-only demos) very
> > nicely,

> > BUT...

> > not what you want for GPL.

> > In the OpenGL mode, it's palpably slower than the hoary GF2 GTS it
> replaced.
> > Moreover, it shows some oddball artifacts, such as what looks like a
> couple
> > of burned out pixels in mid-screen...only I'm not runing an LCD monitor.

> > In the DX mode, it's about as fast as my trusty nVidia part.

> > Goes like gangbusters in GTR2002, Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, Rally
> > Championship, TIR, BMX Volleyball, etc.

> > Now, lessee if it o'clocks like the 'experts' say it should....

> > --Steve

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:35:45

Okay, d/l'd & ran Reg Cleaner (see thread below - GRT pgm., BTW!) and it
fixed the corrupt texture probs (altho not--altogether--the mysterious
missing pixels), but it's still 5 fps SLOWER under OpenGL in GPL than in
DirectX (the opposite was true with my trusty nVidia GF2). The best card
I've ever seen for GPL is the old GF2 Ultra (you can still find them, new,
for abt. $50), but of course it's hopeless for the latest, greatest games
like NOLF2, etc.

> Also meant to say it's not nearly as stable as the GeForce & 30.82 Dets -
> screen occasionally fills with psychedelic garbage, inexplicable CTDs,
etc.
> Which is why I'm not anxious to o'clock it. It's fast enough for the
> processor it's attached to (a 1.3-Ghz T'bird). It just seems far less
> polished than the nVidia part.

> > "Steve Smith"

> > > Goes like gangbusters in GTR2002, Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, Rally
> > > Championship, TIR, BMX Volleyball, etc.

> > > Now, lessee if it o'clocks like the 'experts' say it should....

> > > --Steve

> > I think I recall there was a hex edit you had to preform to 'open'
the
> > 9.5c's up to overclocking. One of the OC sites might have more info on
> > that.
> > dave henrie

by **MadDAW** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:16:26

Nvidia cards have always been better in OpenGL than DX that I can remeber.
That is why we have the unsupported option of OpenGL in NR2002. Personaly I
don't like OpenGL image quality compared to DX.

MadDAWG

by **Joachim Trens** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:26:58

Steve, is the Radeon faster in Dx than the GF2 Ultra was in OpenGL?

Achim

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 04:46:30

I like nVidia's OpenGL visuals better than their the way DX looks, but not
*nearly* as much as 3Dfx's Glide, alas....

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:03:19

Hi Achim,

No.

the GF2 Ultra (OpenGL) gives ca. 24 fps
the GF2 Ultra (DirectX), ca. 20 fps
the 9500 Pro (OpenGL), ca. 14 fps
the 9500 Pro (DirectX), ca. 18 fps

I also noticed that the momentary *dip* in the frame rate when the race
starts is less with the 9500 Pro under DX8.1b than with the GF2 GTS Pro in
OpenGL, i.e., the ATI stands up better under duress.

The big improvement is in Ghost Recon. In some mods, like Harntrox's
"Destroyer" or Nami's "Downtown" (honk if you love the Bakara market), where
the bodies *really* pile up in one place, the previous GF2 GTS Pro (I don't
have anything on the GF2 Ultra machine but racing games) would start
stuttering like mad. With the 9500 Pro, the frame rate starts out abt. the
same, but holds up as the carnage develops visually.

--Steve

> Steve, is the Radeon faster in Dx than the GF2 Ultra was in OpenGL?

> Achim

> > Okay, d/l'd & ran Reg Cleaner (see thread below - GRT pgm., BTW!) and it
> > fixed the corrupt texture probs (altho not--altogether--the mysterious
> > missing pixels), but it's still 5 fps SLOWER under OpenGL in GPL than in
> > DirectX (the opposite was true with my trusty nVidia GF2). The best
card
> > I've ever seen for GPL is the old GF2 Ultra (you can still find them,
new,
> > for abt. $50), but of course it's hopeless for the latest, greatest
games
> > like NOLF2, etc.

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:06:51

I reckon you'd be better off with the highly o'clockable Abit Siluro GF4
4200 Ti. It's a pistol right outta the box, and you can speed it up to
near-4600 levels with little fear of damage. Besides, the O.T.E.S. blows
out more hot air than the exhaust array of the Millennium Falcon!

> NOT the 9500 Pro, only the 9500 non pro. The Pro has only 128-bit memory.
> The 9500 shares the same PCB as the 9700 (256-bit) with the only
difference
> being slower ram and 4 of 8 pipelines disabled (likely 9700 gpu rejects
that
> are creatively labeled and sold as 9500's). The software simply activates
> the other 4 pipelines. I've read 30 pages of posts and the results are
> mixed. Not a worthwhile risk to get stuck with a non pro 9500 if the
> soft9700 fails (the more posts I see, the more the failure % goes UP from
> the initial claim of 30%). You're better off with a GF4 Ti 4400 at
> www.newegg.com for $191 ($30 more than a 9500).

> FWIW, I have an IDENTICAL system to a guy who used soft9700 -
AMD1600/512MB
> RAM/ECS MOBO - the only difference is my GF4 Ti 4400. I was pleasantly
> surprised to see his 3dmark fps wasn't that much better than mine with
9700
> performance (certainly not incentive for me to upgrade). I'm sure his
> biggest advantage is limited to FSAA, which is great but I can still hold
> out until I see with the Geforce FX can do with FSAA.

> --
> Joe M.

> > Steve, get the latest Rivatuner, it has "soft9700" which makes the 9500
> turn
> > into a 9700, very cool... :-)

> > --
> > Edward
> > Commissioner
> > Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)
> > http://members.rogers.com/ecrawford1/mara/maramain.htm

> > > Finally got my Radeon 9500 Pro firing on all cylinders. (Well, 6
outta
> 8
> > > ain't bad.)

> > > Quick take: runs the new games (particularly the DX9-only demos) very
> > > nicely,

> > > BUT...

> > > not what you want for GPL.

> > > In the OpenGL mode, it's palpably slower than the hoary GF2 GTS it
> > replaced.
> > > Moreover, it shows some oddball artifacts, such as what looks like a
> > couple
> > > of burned out pixels in mid-screen...only I'm not runing an LCD
monitor.

> > > In the DX mode, it's about as fast as my trusty nVidia part.

> > > Goes like gangbusters in GTR2002, Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, Rally
> > > Championship, TIR, BMX Volleyball, etc.

> > > Now, lessee if it o'clocks like the 'experts' say it should....

> > > --Steve

by **Joachim Trens** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:00:21

Thanks for the info Steve.

Achim

> Hi Achim,

> No.

> the GF2 Ultra (OpenGL) gives ca. 24 fps
> the GF2 Ultra (DirectX), ca. 20 fps
> the 9500 Pro (OpenGL), ca. 14 fps
> the 9500 Pro (DirectX), ca. 18 fps

> I also noticed that the momentary *dip* in the frame rate when the race
> starts is less with the 9500 Pro under DX8.1b than with the GF2 GTS Pro in
> OpenGL, i.e., the ATI stands up better under duress.

> The big improvement is in Ghost Recon. In some mods, like Harntrox's
> "Destroyer" or Nami's "Downtown" (honk if you love the Bakara market),
where
> the bodies *really* pile up in one place, the previous GF2 GTS Pro (I
don't
> have anything on the GF2 Ultra machine but racing games) would start
> stuttering like mad. With the 9500 Pro, the frame rate starts out abt.
the
> same, but holds up as the carnage develops visually.

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:42:18

DON'T!!! Don't get me started....:)
dave henrie

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:57:12

'k

> > I like nVidia's OpenGL visuals better than their the way DX looks, but
> > not *nearly* as much as 3Dfx's Glide, alas....

> DON'T!!! Don't get me started....:)
> dave henrie

rec.autos.simulators

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo

ATI Radeon 9500 Pro : Mezzo-mezzo