rec.autos.simulators

by **David A. Ewin** » Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:25:49

Hi guys,

I just finished building my first computer. It has the following specs --

AMD Athlon XP 2100+
Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
Windows XP Home Edition

I have a question regarding the ATI Radeon 9500 Pro video card.

When I first log-on, I get an ATI Desktop Help dialog box that says "Using
TV Display ... If you are not using a TV for your computer's display, it is
recommended that you disable TV display for optimal performance ...". There
is a check box that is checked for "Show window at start up when TV display
is enabled".

Now I obviously am not using a TV for the display, so I click on the "Enable
or Disable TV Display" button and it shows you how to turn off the TV
display: Go to Display Properties->Advanced->Displays Tab. Here it shows my
monitor along with three other items -- Monitor, YpbPr and TV. The latter
three are all grayed out. The help tells me to click a green enable/disable
button on the TV choice, but this is not possible since it is grayed out.

Note: In Display Properties it shows icons for your displays and lists them
in a drop down list box. I see a large "1" representing my computer monitor
with the corresponding "Dell D1025TM on Radeon 9700/9500 Series" in the list
box. But there is also a small fuzzy "2" icon with "(Default Monitor) on
Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary" in the list.

If I select "2. (Default Monitor) on Radeon ... Secondary" and then click
Advanced, I do not get the custom ATI tabbed interface, so I can't get to an
active green button that way. Note: the "Extend my Windows desktop onto
this monitor" check box is NOT checked.

Under Device Manager->Display Adapters, I see both Radeon 9700/9500 Series
and Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary. I right clicked on the latter and
chose "disable" and rebooted. I still get the "Using TV Display" message
which is disturbing. Now I no longer see the "1" and "2" in Display
Properties and only the Dell monitor on the normal adapter is shown (no
Secondary), which sounds right.

However, now I get an error dialog "ATIX10.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." If I re-enable the
Secondary adapter, this error message does not go away.

Is all this normal? Things seem to be working fine. Do any of you other
Radeon 9500/9700 owners experience anything like this? Should I just uncheck
the "Show window at start up when TV display is enabled" and forget about
it? What about that new error dialog regarding ATIX10.exe?

My ATI driver is dated 10/12/2002, version 6.13.10.6200.

Thanks in advance,

Dave Ewing

--
****************************************
David A. Ewing

****************************************

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:23:14

Can't help ya Dave, but your specs are almost exactly what I was
shooting for...do you have any benchmark #'s available? Like 3dmarkse and
the 3dconfig for the ISI F1 2k2 sim & mods???
dave henrie

by **David A. Ewin** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:28:44

Thanks, Ken.

Dave

by **David A. Ewin** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:28:18

Hi Dave,

Sorry, I don't have any of those benchmark programs, but I've been thinking
of picking up 3DMarkSE. Once I get everything sorted out and tweaked I'll
also post some frame rate results for you.

Dave Ewing

> > Hi guys,

> > I just finished building my first computer. It has the following
specs --

> > AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> > Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> > Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> > ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> > Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> > Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> > Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> > Windows XP Home Edition

> Can't help ya Dave, but your specs are almost exactly what I was
> shooting for...do you have any benchmark #'s available? Like 3dmarkse and
> the 3dconfig for the ISI F1 2k2 sim & mods???
> dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:12:23

Ok, for the EA F1 benchmark, you can download the demo of F1 2k2 or
Nascar thunder.
thanks..
dh

> Hi Dave,

> Sorry, I don't have any of those benchmark programs, but I've been
thinking
> of picking up 3DMarkSE. Once I get everything sorted out and tweaked I'll
> also post some frame rate results for you.

> Dave Ewing

> > > Hi guys,

> > > I just finished building my first computer. It has the following
> specs --

> > > AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> > > Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> > > Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> > > ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> > > Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> > > Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> > > Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> > > Windows XP Home Edition

> > Can't help ya Dave, but your specs are almost exactly what I
was
> > shooting for...do you have any benchmark #'s available? Like 3dmarkse
and
> > the 3dconfig for the ISI F1 2k2 sim & mods???
> > dave henrie

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by **Tim Mise** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:00:03

David, first off, congrats on your new pc and welcome to the world of
building your own. It is the only way to go.

First off, the ATI desktop help window that appears is normal. It will
always show up after you install your card or a new driver. The wording ATI
uses has always been confusing and I don't know why they don't change it.
Just uncheck it the box in the lower left and it won't show up again.

In your display properties, it again is normal to show display 1 as your
current monitor and display 2 as a default monitor on the secondary channel.
Keep this on 1 and that is normal not to show any ATI tabs in the advanced
section when you have 2 selected.

In the Device Manager, it should show both the Radeon 9500/9700 and the
R9500/9700 secondary however don't disable #2. They should both be enabled
and that is normal.

Remember, the "Show window at startup when TV display is enabled" has
nothing to do with any of these other issues.

After making all of these corrections and re-enabling both display devices,
if you still get the error dialog about ATIX10.exe, first thing I would try
is updating your driver. That version you have installed is very old now.
Go to ATI.com and download and install the Catalyst 3.0 driver and if you
haven't already done so, update to DX9 from Microsoft's website first. The
9500 is a DX9 card so you'll definately benefit from this.

If doing this driver update doesn't solve the error dialog, give system
restore a try. If that fixed it, then repeat the driver update and dx9
install. Another option is to completely unistall the driver in add/remove
programs and then reinstall it.

Good luck.

-Tim

> Hi guys,

> I just finished building my first computer. It has the following specs --

> AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> Windows XP Home Edition

> I have a question regarding the ATI Radeon 9500 Pro video card.

> When I first log-on, I get an ATI Desktop Help dialog box that says "Using
> TV Display ... If you are not using a TV for your computer's display, it
is
> recommended that you disable TV display for optimal performance ...".
There
> is a check box that is checked for "Show window at start up when TV
display
> is enabled".

> Now I obviously am not using a TV for the display, so I click on the
"Enable
> or Disable TV Display" button and it shows you how to turn off the TV
> display: Go to Display Properties->Advanced->Displays Tab. Here it shows
my
> monitor along with three other items -- Monitor, YpbPr and TV. The latter
> three are all grayed out. The help tells me to click a green
enable/disable
> button on the TV choice, but this is not possible since it is grayed out.

> Note: In Display Properties it shows icons for your displays and lists
them
> in a drop down list box. I see a large "1" representing my computer
monitor
> with the corresponding "Dell D1025TM on Radeon 9700/9500 Series" in the
list
> box. But there is also a small fuzzy "2" icon with "(Default Monitor) on
> Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary" in the list.

> If I select "2. (Default Monitor) on Radeon ... Secondary" and then click
> Advanced, I do not get the custom ATI tabbed interface, so I can't get to
an
> active green button that way. Note: the "Extend my Windows desktop onto
> this monitor" check box is NOT checked.

> Under Device Manager->Display Adapters, I see both Radeon 9700/9500 Series
> and Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary. I right clicked on the latter and
> chose "disable" and rebooted. I still get the "Using TV Display" message
> which is disturbing. Now I no longer see the "1" and "2" in Display
> Properties and only the Dell monitor on the normal adapter is shown (no
> Secondary), which sounds right.

> However, now I get an error dialog "ATIX10.exe has encountered a problem
and
> needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." If I re-enable the
> Secondary adapter, this error message does not go away.

> Is all this normal? Things seem to be working fine. Do any of you other
> Radeon 9500/9700 owners experience anything like this? Should I just
uncheck
> the "Show window at start up when TV display is enabled" and forget about
> it? What about that new error dialog regarding ATIX10.exe?

> My ATI driver is dated 10/12/2002, version 6.13.10.6200.

> Thanks in advance,

> Dave Ewing

> --
> ****************************************
> David A. Ewing

> ****************************************

by **David A. Ewin** » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:25:16

Hi Dave,

Actually, I do have F1 2002 and thus the 3D setup benchmark. I bought the
game in anticipation of my new computer. Here are some scores --

1024x768, 16 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 45.2 M/tri, Full, Full

Turning on 2x or 4x AA does not affect the scores at 16 bit.

1024x768, 32 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 44.9 M/tri, Full, Full

2x AA = 39.3 M/tri
4x AA = 34.1 M/tri

1280x1024, 16 bit, 75 Hz, No AA, 40.5 M/tri, Full, Full

32 bit = 39.3 M/tri
32 bit, 2x AA = 33.0 M/tri
32 bit, 4x AA = 28.2 M/tri -- High, Full

1600x1200, 16 bit, 60Hz, No AA, No VSync, 36.3 M/tri, Full, Full

32 bit = 34.9 M/tri
32 bit, 2x AA = 28.5 M/tri, High, Full
32 bit, 4x AA = 24.5 M/tri, High, Full

Dave Ewing

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:00:39

Great, thats near double my current numbers. The reason AA doesn't
effect the 16bit scores is that the new Radeons haven't had drivers that
work with 16bit FSAA. But somebody said that will be fixed soon. Great
info...thanks for the report.
dh.

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by **Joe M** » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:48:23

Hmm, your scores just don't seem high enough. I was considering the 9500
Pro (and an AMD 2100) as an upgrade after seeing the stellar FSAA
performance (considering the price) in anandtech's updated review with the
final retail board but now I'm not so sure.

For comparison here's my rig:

AMD 1600+/512MB Ram/GF4 Ti4400 (30.82 & DX9)

My config score at 1280x1024x32-bit, 85Hz, No AA, No VSync is 37M/tri, Full,
Full (compared to your 39M/tri).

My score is far too close to your score considering you have a substantially
faster cpu and a slightly faster video card (especially at higher res and/or
with FSAA/anis).

Would you mind trying an in-game test? Pick a track and run at the back of
the pack at 1280x1024x32-bit with no FSAA, 2xFSAA, 4xFSAA and 6xFSAA/8-anis
and note your fps (I usually get 20-30 start of race depending on the track
and then 40-60 while racing). This would be very helpful to someone like me
who is considering a card mainly for FSAA and more consistent fps (I
anticipate the 9700 Pro will be the only meaningful upgrade for me based on
your 3D config numbers).

TIA.

--
Joe M.

> Hi Dave,

> Actually, I do have F1 2002 and thus the 3D setup benchmark. I bought the
> game in anticipation of my new computer. Here are some scores --

> 1024x768, 16 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 45.2 M/tri, Full, Full

> Turning on 2x or 4x AA does not affect the scores at 16 bit.

> 1024x768, 32 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 44.9 M/tri, Full, Full

> 2x AA = 39.3 M/tri
> 4x AA = 34.1 M/tri

> 1280x1024, 16 bit, 75 Hz, No AA, 40.5 M/tri, Full, Full

> 32 bit = 39.3 M/tri
> 32 bit, 2x AA = 33.0 M/tri
> 32 bit, 4x AA = 28.2 M/tri -- High, Full

> 1600x1200, 16 bit, 60Hz, No AA, No VSync, 36.3 M/tri, Full, Full

> 32 bit = 34.9 M/tri
> 32 bit, 2x AA = 28.5 M/tri, High, Full
> 32 bit, 4x AA = 24.5 M/tri, High, Full

> Dave Ewing

> > Ok, for the EA F1 benchmark, you can download the demo of F1 2k2 or
> > Nascar thunder.
> > thanks..
> > dh
> > > > > I just finished building my first computer. It has the following
> > > specs --

> > > > > AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> > > > > Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> > > > > Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> > > > > ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> > > > > Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> > > > > Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> > > > > Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> > > > > Windows XP Home Edition

by **David A. Ewin** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:00:42

Hi again Dave,

Here's some more data for you, Dave. I got 3DMark 2001 SE. The score at the
default settings -- 1024x768, 32 bits, No AA was 11,022.

Dave

> > Hi Dave,

> > Actually, I do have F1 2002 and thus the 3D setup benchmark. I bought
the
> > game in anticipation of my new computer. Here are some scores --

> > 1024x768, 16 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 45.2 M/tri, Full, Full

> Great, thats near double my current numbers. The reason AA doesn't
> effect the 16bit scores is that the new Radeons haven't had drivers that
> work with 16bit FSAA. But somebody said that will be fixed soon. Great
> info...thanks for the report.
> dh.

by **David A. Ewin** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:02:54

Hi Joe,

I'll do this test for you this weekend when I have a bit more time to play
with it. I did run the 3DMark 2001 SE benchmark. See my post above.

Dave Ewing

> Would you mind trying an in-game test? Pick a track and run at the back
of
> the pack at 1280x1024x32-bit with no FSAA, 2xFSAA, 4xFSAA and
6xFSAA/8-anis
> and note your fps (I usually get 20-30 start of race depending on the
track
> and then 40-60 while racing). This would be very helpful to someone like
me
> who is considering a card mainly for FSAA and more consistent fps (I
> anticipate the 9700 Pro will be the only meaningful upgrade for me based
on
> your 3D config numbers).

by **Joe M** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:15:47

Thanks Dave, I look forward to it. Much appreciated.

--
Joe M.

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:38:47

Thanks David. Hopefully I'll be able to scam some poor credit card
company into thinking I can repay my debts.. heheheh
Oh btw...have you installed the 3.0 drivers?(whatever those ATI drivers
are called?)

dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:40:50

Joe at first guess, I don't think the 9500pro would be that much better
than your present card. I do understand they have found a way to overclock
them, but from your point of view, I would suggest either the 9700 or the
9700pro.
The plain 9700 is quite a-bit cheaper and should be able to be pushed
harder than the 9500 pro, espeicially at higher screen resolutions.
dave henrie

> Hmm, your scores just don't seem high enough. I was considering the 9500
> Pro (and an AMD 2100) as an upgrade after seeing the stellar FSAA
> performance (considering the price) in anandtech's updated review with the
> final retail board but now I'm not so sure.

> For comparison here's my rig:

> AMD 1600+/512MB Ram/GF4 Ti4400 (30.82 & DX9)

> My config score at 1280x1024x32-bit, 85Hz, No AA, No VSync is 37M/tri,
Full,
> Full (compared to your 39M/tri).

> My score is far too close to your score considering you have a
substantially
> faster cpu and a slightly faster video card (especially at higher res
and/or
> with FSAA/anis).

> Would you mind trying an in-game test? Pick a track and run at the back
of
> the pack at 1280x1024x32-bit with no FSAA, 2xFSAA, 4xFSAA and
6xFSAA/8-anis
> and note your fps (I usually get 20-30 start of race depending on the
track
> and then 40-60 while racing). This would be very helpful to someone like
me
> who is considering a card mainly for FSAA and more consistent fps (I
> anticipate the 9700 Pro will be the only meaningful upgrade for me based
on
> your 3D config numbers).

> TIA.

> --
> Joe M.

> > Hi Dave,

> > Actually, I do have F1 2002 and thus the 3D setup benchmark. I bought
the
> > game in anticipation of my new computer. Here are some scores --

> > 1024x768, 16 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 45.2 M/tri, Full, Full

> > Turning on 2x or 4x AA does not affect the scores at 16 bit.

> > 1024x768, 32 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 44.9 M/tri, Full, Full

> > 2x AA = 39.3 M/tri
> > 4x AA = 34.1 M/tri

> > 1280x1024, 16 bit, 75 Hz, No AA, 40.5 M/tri, Full, Full

> > 32 bit = 39.3 M/tri
> > 32 bit, 2x AA = 33.0 M/tri
> > 32 bit, 4x AA = 28.2 M/tri -- High, Full

> > 1600x1200, 16 bit, 60Hz, No AA, No VSync, 36.3 M/tri, Full, Full

> > 32 bit = 34.9 M/tri
> > 32 bit, 2x AA = 28.5 M/tri, High, Full
> > 32 bit, 4x AA = 24.5 M/tri, High, Full

> > Dave Ewing

> > > Ok, for the EA F1 benchmark, you can download the demo of F1 2k2 or
> > > Nascar thunder.
> > > thanks..
> > > dh
> > > > > > I just finished building my first computer. It has the
following
> > > > specs --

> > > > > > AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> > > > > > Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> > > > > > Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> > > > > > ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> > > > > > Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> > > > > > Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> > > > > > Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> > > > > > Windows XP Home Edition

by **Joe M** » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:00:47

Thanks Dave. I was thinking the same thing myself, although wishfully
thinking the 9500 Pro would fit the bill. I'm leaning towards the 9700 Pro
just for the extra push but I'll have to wait until it hits $240's (not too
long, probably a few weeks after Geforce FX).

BTW, there was a post in the fight-sim group about the NON-ATI 9500
(non-Pro) that performed at 9700 PRO levels with a small soldering
modification (and nothing more). A Russian *** site used a Sapphire 9500
and changed the solder points on the underside of the board (a capacitor was
moved I believe). It only works on the non-Pro and non-ATI because those
are the only 9500's that used the same PCB as the 9700 Pro. Not a bid trick
for only $150 US and a soldering iron.

--
Joe M.

> Joe at first guess, I don't think the 9500pro would be that much better
> than your present card. I do understand they have found a way to
overclock
> them, but from your point of view, I would suggest either the 9700 or the
> 9700pro.
> The plain 9700 is quite a-bit cheaper and should be able to be pushed
> harder than the 9500 pro, espeicially at higher screen resolutions.
> dave henrie

> > Hmm, your scores just don't seem high enough. I was considering the
9500
> > Pro (and an AMD 2100) as an upgrade after seeing the stellar FSAA
> > performance (considering the price) in anandtech's updated review with
the
> > final retail board but now I'm not so sure.

> > For comparison here's my rig:

> > AMD 1600+/512MB Ram/GF4 Ti4400 (30.82 & DX9)

> > My config score at 1280x1024x32-bit, 85Hz, No AA, No VSync is 37M/tri,
> Full,
> > Full (compared to your 39M/tri).

> > My score is far too close to your score considering you have a
> substantially
> > faster cpu and a slightly faster video card (especially at higher res
> and/or
> > with FSAA/anis).

> > Would you mind trying an in-game test? Pick a track and run at the back
> of
> > the pack at 1280x1024x32-bit with no FSAA, 2xFSAA, 4xFSAA and
> 6xFSAA/8-anis
> > and note your fps (I usually get 20-30 start of race depending on the
> track
> > and then 40-60 while racing). This would be very helpful to someone
like
> me
> > who is considering a card mainly for FSAA and more consistent fps (I
> > anticipate the 9700 Pro will be the only meaningful upgrade for me based
> on
> > your 3D config numbers).

> > TIA.

> > --
> > Joe M.

> > > Hi Dave,

> > > Actually, I do have F1 2002 and thus the 3D setup benchmark. I bought
> the
> > > game in anticipation of my new computer. Here are some scores --

> > > 1024x768, 16 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 45.2 M/tri, Full, Full

> > > Turning on 2x or 4x AA does not affect the scores at 16 bit.

> > > 1024x768, 32 bit, 100Hz, No AA, No VSync, 44.9 M/tri, Full, Full

> > > 2x AA = 39.3 M/tri
> > > 4x AA = 34.1 M/tri

> > > 1280x1024, 16 bit, 75 Hz, No AA, 40.5 M/tri, Full, Full

> > > 32 bit = 39.3 M/tri
> > > 32 bit, 2x AA = 33.0 M/tri
> > > 32 bit, 4x AA = 28.2 M/tri -- High, Full

> > > 1600x1200, 16 bit, 60Hz, No AA, No VSync, 36.3 M/tri, Full, Full

> > > 32 bit = 34.9 M/tri
> > > 32 bit, 2x AA = 28.5 M/tri, High, Full
> > > 32 bit, 4x AA = 24.5 M/tri, High, Full

> > > Dave Ewing

> > > > Ok, for the EA F1 benchmark, you can download the demo of F1 2k2
or
> > > > Nascar thunder.
> > > > thanks..
> > > > dh
> > > > > > > I just finished building my first computer. It has the
> following
> > > > > specs --

> > > > > > > AMD Athlon XP 2100+
> > > > > > > Asus A7N8x motherboard (non-deluxe)
> > > > > > > Two 256 Meg sticks of Corsair XPS PC2700 memory
> > > > > > > ATI Radeon 9500 Pro
> > > > > > > Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
> > > > > > > Western Digital 80 Gig Special Edition hard drive
> > > > > > > Plextor PlexWriter 4/24/48 Atapi CD-RW
> > > > > > > Windows XP Home Edition

rec.autos.simulators

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question

OT: ATI Radeon 9700/9500 Series Secondary display error/question