rec.autos.simulators

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

mark jeangerar

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by mark jeangerar » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

What's this "high-speed cornering physic flaw" of which you speak?

--

mark
"You *will* hit what you look at. In that case, try looking at the apex
instead of the gravel at your turn in point."

F1RS - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.


>Well, like I would say, it's a great hotlapping _game_ , mainly because of
>high-speed cornering physic flaws, but that's all...

David G Fishe

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by David G Fishe » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

I don't understand your post. What I am saying and is fact is there are many
kids who can take a driving game, or sim, and sit down and rip apart so
called "sim experts" with ease. They, like us sim experts,  wouldn't be able
to get in a Formula1 car and race against Schumacher. Worlds apart are sims
and reality. That is why I get a laugh at the jerks who rip sims apart that
they don't happen to like. I've said this before, if you want a true sim
experience, take your fav sim, drive it while sitting in a roller coaster,
have a couple of big hairy guys beat you with baseball bats if you crash,
and then pay a million dollar bill for the car you wreck. Then you have a
true sim.

Dave
DmndDave


>You need to get your ***down to a race track and watch the children go.
>Your measurement of sim reality is due for an overhaul.

>--

>mark
>"You *will* hit what you look at. In that case, try looking at the apex
>instead of the gravel at your turn in point."

Byron Forbe

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00


> I don't understand your post. What I am saying and is fact is there are many
> kids who can take a driving game, or sim, and sit down and rip apart so
> called "sim experts" with ease. They, like us sim experts,  wouldn't be able
> to get in a Formula1 car and race against Schumacher. Worlds apart are sims
> and reality. That is why I get a laugh at the jerks who rip sims apart that
> they don't happen to like. I've said this before, if you want a true sim
> experience, take your fav sim, drive it while sitting in a roller coaster,
> have a couple of big hairy guys beat you with baseball bats if you crash,
> and then pay a million dollar bill for the car you wreck. Then you have a
> true sim.

   BTW, for those that don't know, Dave's a beta tester for MS. This should help many to
understand why he's like a captain going down with his ship! CPR is an unfinished piece of
shit and an insult to the intelligence of the intelligent! So guess what this means to
those of you not feeling insulted by MS over CPR!
Byron Forbe

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Hey Dave, how many words is that today? Do MS pay you by the word or something? MS
obviously hope newbies will read your dribble to try to empty those bargain bins aye?

   Snip a ton of shit

John Walla

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by John Walla » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:05:59 -0400, "DAVID G FISHER"


>If someone says CPR sucks, then they absolutely are saying I
>suck at driving sims

No. They are saying simply that CPR sucks - that infers nothing about
your ability at all. It is qute possible to be massively talented at
either a good or a bad sim. Just because Senna drove a sucky car (the
Toleman) didn't mean he was an awful driver.

More often than not probably! :-)

Nope, IMO. I would never claim that Outrun had the most realistic
driving but I can whip all my mates at it. So too with POD, Speed
Haste, or any other LAN racing game we've tried. Now I can also whip
their butts at F1RS and CPR, but that doesn't make F1RS or CPR the
equivalent of Outrun and Speed Haste. IMO it is simply that the
attributes of spatial/situational awareness, strategic thinking and
hand-eye co-ordination will serve you equally well in in a sim or a
game. I would expect any good sim driver to be good in a racing game
(although not, perhaps, as good as a real afficionado), but I wouldn't
necessarily expect a POD fan to be good at F1RS or CPR. Simply put,
people who are fast in CPR have the attributes needed to be good
drivers, and those same basic skills will work in GPL also. I'd be
surprised if it were otherwise. That alone says nothing about GPL or
CPR, simply about human ability and adaptability.

People who've tried and commented on GPL have driven '67 F1 cars.

As many times as necessary, but remember that there ARE people who
have tried these cars, NASCAR, old F1 and F1 at least, I'm not sure
about CART (and certainly not modern day F1). They are just not the
same people shooting their mouths off about what sucks and what
doesn't!

It depends upon their perspective. "Sucks" is a very strong and
emotive word, and not very useful in meaningful exchange.
Unfortunately it is also the standard expression to describe anything
disliked, however slightly. I thought there were some aspects of CPR
that "sucked" such as AI and some of the finer detail of the driving,
but equally there were some very good aspects to it such as the rush
of driving, the sounds, the general design, pit adjustments, crew
chief etc.

You can make the same analysis about any sim, and say that F1RS sucked
because of the sound or GP2 sucked because of the frame-rate or
pitstops, whatever. That is understandable. "It sucks" isn't, and
deserves whatever response it gets :-)

I would add though that you can't say that the corrolary is
automatically true. Just because a child is good in CPR or GPL you
can't assume that those children wouldn't be good in a real car. Some
kids are awesome in karts at an early age, showing far more talent
than many ***s will ever develop. You should see the police footage
over here in the UK of young kids stealing cars and joyriding - man
these kids can drive sometimes! People have certain inate abilities
and learning capacities, and these skills are generally applicable.

Cheers!
John

John Walla

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by John Walla » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00


>Please post your complaints with MS CPR so that I may try to dispute them one
>by one.

As an example, one or two concerns are ;

- Drive along a wall at low speed, then gently turn into the wall. See
the way your front wheels SNAP to full opposite lock as soon as they
touch? That's why when you brush a wall in CPR your car is instantly
out of control - not realistic. In oval races a car can touch a wall
and get away with it (a la Mansell) or, more usually, in higher speed
contact the car comes to a halt a couple of hundred metres on, still
stuck to the wall but minus the side of the car. In CPR you are flung
***ly to the opposite side of the track. This aspect of CPR is a
fudge to stop people being able to drive around the walls and set
hotlaps, which you could do with some of the betas just shortly before
release. I suppose there wasn't time to do a full analysis and fix.

- At very low speeds the car has a major attack of hiccups.

- There is a problem with low speed turning, where the car doesn't
react as quickly as it should. This can be tuned out to a greater or
lesser extent with some work, but it shouldn't be that difficult.

I could go on with more, but there is little point. Every sim has it's
flaws (heck real life racing has it's flaws so what chance for a
perfect sim?!), and it all depends whether those flaws are important
to you, can be overlooked or are even seen as flaws - some may like
the above aspects. What is being argued is not whether or not CPR is a
good sim, the argument tends to be whether one person's idea of a good
sim matches another person's. It should be enough to enjoy it without
trying to persuade people they are wrong for not enjoying it (and vice
versa of course). Who am I to tell someone else what they enjoy? We
are very quick to trot out the old cliche of "no-one knows what these
cars are really like", but most people know a damn sight more about
what these cars are like than about what another person enjoys.

This is one complaint that can never be levelled at CPR - the AI
certainly ain't too fast! :-)

Personally my major problem with CPR was simply that it was too hard
to race against the AI, due to their positioning and aggression on the
circuits and speed on the ovals. It was pretty enjoyable to drive, but
I'm not a hotlapping sort of guy, I like to race. For that reason it
didn't last with me in the long term, but of course others will find
it different and I don't think either of us is wrong.

Cheers!
John

Bruce Kennewel

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

David, I really don't give a hoot whether you like it or not.  Neither
do I care whether you will "kick ass" or "rip me up" (such colourful
terms!), mainly because I won't be playing it on-line between here and
the Land of the Canaanites and also because I consider it to be
"entertainment", not a means of proving my manhood!


> Sucks, sucks, sucks,sucks.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
Bruce Kennewel

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Oh, alright, if you insist that we say it.....

"You suck at driving sims".

There now....feel better?


> If someone says CPR sucks, then they absolutely are saying I
> suck at driving sims

--
Regards,
Bruce.
Walk Walke

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Walk Walke » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Everyone knows that Terminal Reality did CPR and the whole thing is dead.
End of story. There will be no more.

-/- Walk Walker

Bruce Kennewel

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

And who would that be......David Kaemmer?


> Currently, GPL is the ultimate sim that God himself had a hand in creating.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
Bruce Kennewel

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

David, what you are doing is "soapboxing". You will defend unto the
death the good name of CPR and all that goes with it.  To you, there is
nothing wrong that can't be explained away.
Irrespective of what points people raise about the cons of CPR, you will
toss up a response, no matter how desperate the answer might be.

I admire your loyalty, but question your reasoning.


> Lots of reasons why CPR is great and anybody who doesn't think so > needs attending to.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
Bruce Kennewel

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

The reader/listener "infers", John.  The writer/speaker "implies".:o)


> No. They are saying simply that CPR sucks - that infers nothing about
> your ability at all.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
Marc Collin

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Marc Collin » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Some of us pointed this out last fall.  That's why it was doubly
disappointing that Microsoft refused to support the title after claiming
quite publicly that they would.


>(This one is not short, but you should read it)

>I am an open wheel racing sim fanatic...

>I was/am a big fan of Grand Prix (1 &2) and Indycar (1 & 2) for their
>'drivability' and got really amped when I saw the graphics in CPR (even
>knowing the Microsoft games are WAY to 'arcadish').

>"Luckily" I got the game last September as a gift and thought it sucked. I
>put it in the closet where I thought it belonged, feeling sorry for the
>giver who actually spent $$ on it.

>However, once I got a 3Dfx (Diamond Monster 3DII -Voodoo2) and a P2-266
>w/128m RAM I decided to give it another shot.

>For those of you who played the CPR demo and think it sucks, you're
>absolutely right.  -Until you get it running on a smooth machine (type
FRAME
>while on the track to see your frame rate).  Mine can hit 30-40 frames/sec
>on this particular game.  ONLY then do you pick up control of the car that
>you desperately need.

>Once you turn off all the lame "auto functions/driving
>assistance/I'm-so-worthless-I-wanted-a-video-game-not-an-actual-simulation"
>features, actually drive the damn car a few laps on a track that you know
>well, it is a very tolerable and ***ing game.

>AGREED, the AI is among the worst I've ever seen, but the car YOU drive
>drives the tracks very well.  If you want AI, give up on Microsoft all
>together and get on the net.  There are real people out there driving the
>cars, you just have to find them.

>PS, the graphics make this game.

Zonk

So you think CPR sucks? Read on...

by Zonk » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00


>David, what you are doing is "soapboxing". You will defend unto the
>death the good name of CPR and all that goes with it.  To you, there is
>nothing wrong that can't be explained away.
>Irrespective of what points people raise about the cons of CPR, you will
>toss up a response, no matter how desperate the answer might be.

>I admire your loyalty, but question your reasoning.

Not that anyone might er.. consider that of you, Bruce?

Z.


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.