rec.autos.simulators

N4 and Force Feedback?

Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 03:58:20

I have a MSFF wheel and have the return to centre spring set to
medium. Every time I enter the 3D part of N4 the wheel goes limp and I
have no centreing spring active. I have forces in corners etc., but
down the straights it is limp and is causing me to lose control. Leave
the game and the centreing force returns. Anyone else have this
problem and know a fix? Any good core.ini hacks maybe?
--
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Ian

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Ian » Mon, 14 May 2001 04:32:11

I don't know of anyway to make it stay on, but it's supposed to turn it off
anyway.

--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>


Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 06:55:24


>I don't know of anyway to make it stay on, but it's supposed to turn it off
>anyway.

Why? I can't drive down the straights like this. I noticed GPL does
the same thing. I want rack and pinion steering dammit! :-)

--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Jan Verschuere

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jan Verschuere » Mon, 14 May 2001 07:03:41

In the LWFF control panel there is a checkbox labeled "Use Centering Spring
in Force Feedback Games". Look for a similar feature for your wheel.

You should feel centering forces (and maybe even some pull to the left) in
N4 regardless of having the centering spring turned on or not though.

Jan.
=----
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Ian

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Ian » Mon, 14 May 2001 07:12:18

Ok, try a little experiment.
Get in your real car, turn the steering wheel left a bit while standing
still. Does it return to centre ?
Didn't think so :)
Now do the same and slowly pull away, does it centre now ?
Eventually, yes, but no where near as fast as a spring on a PC steering
wheel will (even the return to centre spring on a FF wheel) ;)

Even a car at high speed feels nothing like the return to centre on any PC
wheel I've ever tried.

Disclaimer: This experiment is void if you drive an old Citroen CX :)

--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>



> >I don't know of anyway to make it stay on, but it's supposed to turn it
off
> >anyway.

> Why? I can't drive down the straights like this. I noticed GPL does
> the same thing. I want rack and pinion steering dammit! :-)

> --
> eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
> http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Andre Warring

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Andre Warring » Mon, 14 May 2001 08:28:35


>I have a MSFF wheel and have the return to centre spring set to
>medium. Every time I enter the 3D part of N4 the wheel goes limp and I
>have no centreing spring active. I have forces in corners etc., but
>down the straights it is limp and is causing me to lose control. Leave
>the game and the centreing force returns. Anyone else have this
>problem and know a fix? Any good core.ini hacks maybe?

You should turn off centre spring in N4, just like in GPL. Don't ask
me for a technical explanation, but N4 and GPL use ff in a different
way that most other racing sims/games do, and the ff works best in GPL
and N4 with centering spring turned off.

Andre

Michael Basde

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Michael Basde » Mon, 14 May 2001 09:05:09

Tighten the steering ratio on your set-up...try 12:1...you'll notice the
difference.

MB


> >I don't know of anyway to make it stay on, but it's supposed to turn it
off
> >anyway.

> Why? I can't drive down the straights like this. I noticed GPL does
> the same thing. I want rack and pinion steering dammit! :-)

> --
> eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
> http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 11:30:55

On Sun, 13 May 2001 00:03:41 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"


>In the LWFF control panel there is a checkbox labeled "Use Centering Spring
>in Force Feedback Games". Look for a similar feature for your wheel.

That's what I'm saying. I turn centreing spring on in the wheel
properties and Nascar4 turns it off.

I feel the forces, just no centreing which makes my wheel too loose on
the straights.
--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 11:33:21


>Ok, try a little experiment.
>Get in your real car, turn the steering wheel left a bit while standing
>still. Does it return to centre ?
>Didn't think so :)
>Now do the same and slowly pull away, does it centre now ?
>Eventually, yes, but no where near as fast as a spring on a PC steering
>wheel will (even the return to centre spring on a FF wheel) ;)

>Even a car at high speed feels nothing like the return to centre on any PC
>wheel I've ever tried.

>Disclaimer: This experiment is void if you drive an old Citroen CX :)

Look, I know all about that stuff. I actually own a real car. The
wheel doesn't flop around like there is nothing beneath me except air
either. you ever drive a car with rack and pinion steering? I doubt
Nascar's use power steering.

--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 11:33:59

On Sun, 13 May 2001 00:05:09 GMT, "Michael Basden"


>Tighten the steering ratio on your set-up...try 12:1...you'll notice the
>difference.

OK thx. I'll try that.
--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip
Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 11:35:51



Both those sims turn it off anyway, so it appears. Which should have
been made optional, IMO.

--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Mon, 14 May 2001 11:42:11


>Ok, try a little experiment.
>Get in your real car, turn the steering wheel left a bit while standing
>still. Does it return to centre ?

P.S. You  try it. Does the wheel want to move at all? Trying to turn
the wheel while a car is stionary is very difficult, as you should
know.
--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip
Gregor Vebl

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Gregor Vebl » Mon, 14 May 2001 18:19:46

Hi Jagg,

you really shouldn't need the centering spring. The centering comes from
the tires themselves when the car is at speed, as the suspension
geometry/aligning torque take care of that.

The forces may not be the same magnitude as in the real car, and that
comes from a few factors. As others have suggested, the steering ratio
might be different from your road car, and if you decrease that, more
centering will occur.

Also, on most high speed tracks, the default setup has caster set to
close to 0, which reduces the centering. Set caster to maximum and
notice the difference. But don't come chasing me after a 100+ lap race
when your arms will want to fall off :).

You might also notice that in a real car you don't have all that much
centering force anyway (it tends to build up only when you corner hard,
although power steering may add some artificially - I've seen that one
happen as well!), however, in a real car, you feel the lateral
accelerations and perhaps it's this sensation that you are missing.

-Gregor


> I have a MSFF wheel and have the return to centre spring set to
> medium. Every time I enter the 3D part of N4 the wheel goes limp and I
> have no centreing spring active. I have forces in corners etc., but
> down the straights it is limp and is causing me to lose control. Leave
> the game and the centreing force returns. Anyone else have this
> problem and know a fix? Any good core.ini hacks maybe?
> --
> eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
> http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Tim Elhaj

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Tim Elhaj » Mon, 14 May 2001 23:22:56

That's weird. I have the same wheel and centering works OK here in GPL and
N4.

I know what you mean about how mushy it feels on the straights with
centering turned off, though. I have read plenty of times that it's supposed
to be more realistic with it off, but I like it on myself.

FYI: I have centering set to full and I'm using a profile to split the axes
for accelerator and brake. Mine is the original FF wheel and it's hooked to
the gameport on my SB Live!. Good luck!

--
============================
elh4jj at hotmail <------------------
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


Jagg

N4 and Force Feedback?

by Jagg » Tue, 15 May 2001 00:04:23

On Sun, 13 May 2001 11:19:46 +0200, Gregor Veble


>Hi Jagg,

>you really shouldn't need the centering spring. The centering comes from
>the tires themselves when the car is at speed, as the suspension
>geometry/aligning torque take care of that.

Well, I don't get much of a feel for the road at all on the straights.
Corner's I can feel fine though.

Yea, decreasing the ratio helped a lot. But, I was able to control the
car better on the straights with my previous non-ff wheel.

OK, I'll try that too, thx.

Yes, that is it. My car has power steering and on the highway at high
speed I don't really like it for the same reason as my complaints
above. Rack and Pinion steering is much better for feeling the road.
Which is what all race cars use, correct?

--
eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format
http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip


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