rec.autos.simulators

Oh, and btw, it's not ICR2 anymore, they renamed it, look for CART Racing by
Sierra/Papyrus (not CART Precision Racing by Microsoft, pretty well disliked
by most around here including me).  The other great thing to this, is it's
usually to be found for $15 nowadays, as is NASCAR 2, great bargains.

ICR2 has awesome gameplay...heck, sometimes i sweat when i'm trying to hold off
Little Al, Greg Moore, and company.  You also get your $ worth, because of its
playability...that is there is SO MUCH on there you can enhance the experience
with in ICR2 (e.g., carsets, tracks, setups from others)

CART Precision Racing is excellent *only* for hotlapping.  It's a THRILL though
if you only hotlap with it...don't get your hopes up with any other aspects of
the game/sim though.

God bless,
Loren
Team S/\\//\TS
http://members.aol.com/UnserFan1/

CPR.

--

mark
"If you get to the point where you truly understand what the term 'controlled looseness' means, then, and only then, do you know what the term 'fast' means."

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    I really want a very good, accurate CART sim.  I've got the machine to
    handle it (P2-400, Voodoo 2); is there anything anyone on this group
    of hard ass critics would recommend?

    Jeff

   You'll have to get by on ICR2 (CART Racing) for now and join the rest of us for the
loooooooong wait for ICR3 (CART Racing 2)   :((((((((

Hi there,

I used to be a Formula Renault Driver in the European Championship, so I
think that I know pretty good what driving a racecar should feel. Let me
tell you that the most important thing for all drivers is having fun and
feeling the speed and the power of the racecar.

So for that reason I'd say the best racing game is Cart Precision Racing
from Microsoft. It's really the best way of feeling the speedsensation of a
racecar. I know that this game is pretty much disliked by a lot of visitors
of this newsgroup, but I'm pretty sure that most of them haven't ever been
driving a real racecar. They say that CPR is to easy to play and that a real
racecar would react different. Ofcourse it's not the same and I think that's
also the reason that a computercar should be easier to drive than a real
racecar, because while playing a computergame you would never feel any
G-forces or tires losing grip on the track. You can't replace such feelings
by playing samples of beeping tyres. In a real racecar all the moves you
make depend on what you FEEL what your car is doing at that moment.

I agree that the other competitors in CPR don't react very natural, but
after all I,m pretty sure that CPR would give you most racingfun. So I'd say
buy a racingwheel (a must!) and CPR and have fun.

John

While I would agree that CPR has a great sense of speed, its
shortcomings in gameplay can leave many people with a feeling
that something is terribly wrong.  CART is great in other areas
as well, but nice graphics and oodles of adjustments don't cut
it when it comes to a satisfying sim-session.

CART Racing (ICR2), while not technically superior to that of
most racing sims, nonetheless fills a huge void in gameplay.
Semi-realistic racing conditions, smooth frame rate, and a
simple interface goes a long way in its longevity.

I've been running the sim since release in '95, and although
I've installed many others since, it's the only one that's
NEVER been deleted from my HD, and will most likely remain
there 'til Papy (or some other clever company) come out with
a better American open-wheeled sim.  =)

Cheers!

Marc

* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *
* To reply, change anti.spam.net to worldnet.att.net  *

But I dont *wanna* be a real-life racing driver!
I just want to have an enjoyable time "driving" a simulated racing car
that offers a good mix of realism, sound, graphics and, above all,
"playability".

If I wanted to be a really, truly racing driver I would've gone to
school with Michael Schumacher!

I have to agree with John here. I've noticed that most of the people slagging CPR have not had a chance to play it. By this I mean anyone who spent less than two weeks setting it up. Yes, I consider this a MAJOR flaw in programming *and* marketing. But the fact remains, once set up correctly, CPR had the best physics (even at, and especially at, high speed) until the GPL demo came out.

Some of us *do* want a PC racing game that acts realistically. Even if it's hard or easy to drive. The same some of us also enjoy a good arcade like NICE2 or F1(cough - mumble) once in a while. After spending a considerable amount of time on a real race track or in the sportster on a mountain road, a game like ICR2 not only offers very little in the way of "the racing sensation" but is fights every instinct one has about driving a four wheeled vehicle at the limit.

It's important to take CPR for what it is. A killer driving sim that was not finished well, needs some extra consideration when setting up the game but no maintenance after that, and excellent trouble free online racing. Fun, fun, fun.

I listen to the complaints and they seem to be from people who want a good driving sim and know what one is. I can't believe the same people don't have a few laps around Mid Ohio once in a while. What a beautiful loss you are inflicting on yourselves.
--

mark
"If you get to the point where you truly understand what the term 'controlled looseness' means, then, and only then, do you know what the term 'fast' means."

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    Hi there,

    I used to be a Formula Renault Driver in the European Championship, so I
    think that I know pretty good what driving a racecar should feel. Let me
    tell you that the most important thing for all drivers is having fun and
    feeling the speed and the power of the racecar.

1) MS didn't properly finish CPR as it definitely broke new ground in many
areas.
To this day I have not driven any sim that conveyed the realistic physics
of CPR.

2) That this NG was somehow slighted by MS reps ( D Lester & J Brown ) &
took it so personal that even if this was the * perfect* sim they still
would have flamed it. But having defended the good points of CPR on this NG
and getting the responses I did well, I can't say I blame either of those
MS reps for turning away.
All one needs do is go to Deja News and read the posts they dealt with
during that time. YUK

Well since then what great sim company has dared send any reps here to
actively try and seek info from the supposedly learned * elite sim racers*
? Can you blame them?

Cya Mark,
                     Mike

I have to agree with John here. I've noticed that most of the people
slagging CPR have not had a chance to play it. By this I mean anyone who
spent less than two weeks setting it up. Yes, I consider this a MAJOR flaw
in programming *and* marketing. But the fact remains, once set up
correctly, CPR had the best physics (even at, and especially at, high
speed) until the GPL demo came out.

Some of us *do* want a PC racing game that acts realistically. Even if it's
hard or easy to drive. The same some of us also enjoy a good arcade like
NICE2 or F1(cough - mumble) once in a while. After spending a considerable
amount of time on a real race track or in the sportster on a mountain road,
a game like ICR2 not only offers very little in the way of "the racing
sensation" but is fights every instinct one has about driving a four
wheeled vehicle at the limit.

It's important to take CPR for what it is. A killer driving sim that was
not finished well, needs some extra consideration when setting up the game
but no maintenance after that, and excellent trouble free online racing.
Fun, fun, fun.

I listen to the complaints and they seem to be from people who want a good
driving sim and know what one is. I can't believe the same people don't
have a few laps around Mid Ohio once in a while. What a beautiful loss you
are inflicting on yourselves.
--

Codemasters is doing just that with TOCA 2.

don

"To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caricciola

No, it doesn't.  And its WORSE at high speed because you don't get the
downforce in the rear that you should be getting.  I was actually thinking
that in some ways GPL and CPR are similar in that you can get wheelspin at
high speeds and oversteer into a wall...one problem with the comparison:
GPL's cars are SUPPOSED to behave that way, CART cars are NOT!   Its one
thing to be dealing with wheelspin at low speeds, but remember that Champ
cars generate enough downforce at high speeds to drive upside down, and yet
the cars in CPR will happily behave like no-downforce GPL cars at high
speeds...sorry, but it does NOT have the best physics.  Btw, remember that
on the MS web site they got Mauricio Gugelmin to say that the grip was
perfect?  Then they patched the grip and removed a good hunk of it and
claimed it was improved.    Well, if it was perfect to begin with (it
wasn't), how could it have improved by taking it away?!

it's hard or easy to drive. >>

Difficulty of driving means nothing next to realism.  Most people don't care
how easy or difficult it is to drive as long as its a believable sim.

not finished well

The physics model is the HEART of any driving sim.  By not doing that well,
the problems go beyond a "not finished" problem.

driving sim and know what one is. I can't believe the same people don't have
a few laps around Mid Ohio once in a while. What a beautiful loss you are
inflicting on yourselves. <

Some of us here have spent a ton of hours on CPR, and yes I've raced online
with George Sandman and others...and I'm sorry, but the suspension of
disbelief isn't there when the car gets all loose at 150 mph down a straight
with the gas to the floor.

Randy

People here at r.a.s. said there was too much grip in CPR when it was
released. Now too little? How do you know what settings Gugelmin was using
and how loose or tight he had the car set up. It's certainly possible he
could have the same grip feel in the pre and post patch version. It's just
that the numbers would have changed.

Dave
(DmndDave)