rec.autos.simulators

I doubt that anyone ever will "get it right" with a m/c sim. Motorcycle
racing is just so much more "physical" than auto racing -- you have to
do a lot more with shifting your weight, etc. -- that it is almost
impossible to duplicate with the controls available when sitting in
front of a PC. Think about it: with wheels and pedals you can imagine
yourself driving a car when playing GPL or F1RS, but how close can you
get to the controls for a cycle? Not very! I'll take a look at the AMA
game when it comes out, but I've been ultimately disappointed by every
m/c racing sim that I've tried.

  Doug G

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Both the British & World Superbike series do, however.

Likewise, the kiwi's run in World Superbikes.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Adrian.

But to accurately duplicate a real life bike to a computer game is just not
possible... To ride a bike on a track close to the limit is to a large
extent a matter of what you feel, How hard can I brake, how fast can I throw
the bike into lean, knee on ground, is the front close to wash out, is the
rear gripping enough, can I give it more trottle.... Its just not possible
to do this by what you see on a screen not even with the best FF in the
world....

I do have SBK, but It started to gather dust on my shelf after 3 weeks, I
got back to GPL....

/Bj.O.rn, SDK #1225

I use the pedals for throttle and front brake
with rear brake "geared" to the front brake
signal. (Like brake bias in a car)
I use the stick left/right for lean,
fore and aft stick for rider pitch tucked forward
and sitting up, and the twist for rider lean right
and left. I prefer our on-the-bike view and
like moving the rider body myself rather than
using the automated system (even though I
designed it.) As an experienced flight simmer,
I don't like someone else moving my head ;)

Not important to most probably,
but I use the slider axis on the stick as an
extra camera "range" function while working with
the game. (That lets me move the viewpoint around while
still controlling the bike.) The pedals also leave me a
hand free to take notes or whatever.

Stick buttons for shifting, button clutch, and
a "push back", and hat switch for some
view switching. Looking back while
in a slow corner is a pretty wild stunt
that I'd like to learn just to show off, ;) but
I can't imagine it being all that useful except for
clearing the track when rejoining after an off.
You sort of have to glance back, then look forward
again while only then trying to figure out what you
just saw in the glance without going off into a bridge
abutment or something ;)

I feel a little guilty using 5 axes because USB
stuff isn't everywhere yet. I really should
be using a tiny slider half for brake and
half for throttle (probably the worst case for
controlability) but I hate to work that hard!  ;)
If they only had my flight gear ready in USB
I'd probably have about 6 controllers hooked up... ;)

- Para
--
Matthew V. Jessick         Motorsims

Vehicle Dynamics Engineer  (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

"USB is the greatest thing since sliced bread."

I disagree. While yes, there are more inputs to racing a motorcycle, not
all of them are absolutely necessary for a game to feel right or be a good
sim. Take GP500 for example, enter a turn fast as you can and throw the
bike hard into the turn. Does the bike loose its front wheel and go
tumbling into the dirt? Nope. This is simply terrible physics. And the lean
angle that can be achieved in the sand trap or grass is total fiction in
GP500.

I dont need complexity of controls or game operation, I just want the damn
physics to be and feel right for once!!

If you apply this to a bike sim, you'd be giving input telling the computer
that you want to turn harder and the "virtual you" on the bike would be
assumed by the computer to know how to distribute his/her weight around
correctly.

Of course, this gives less control. E.g. if you can do the same turn by either
shifting your weight or turning the handle bars (I don't know what racing
500cc bikes are like, all the bikes I ride have pedals for propulsion) the
computer makes this decision and not you. But overall, I think it's the only
reasonable way. How much you lean out oughta be pretty much intuitive when
you're on a bike for real - not so if you're using a joystick to lean with.

Just my $.02.

Cheers,
    /ft

The point of a demo is to give prospective buyers a chance
to test out a product before they actaully have to commit
to buying it.  In this manner, we can make an informed
decision about whether the developers actually delivered
on the claims their marketing department has made.  I'm
afraid further promises from either camp isn't really useful
in that decision making process.

Hopefully another demo will be released that contains the
complete physics model in it's final shipping form so that
those of us that are looking for complete realism can make
an informed decision.

That said I would still rate the GP500 demo above all other
motorcycle games in terms of accuracy (that would also
include the current beta of AMA Superbike Racing).

 - George

Aw man, I sure hope you're wrong on this one. Its my last hope. Dont
think there are any other cycle sims in the make?